some observations at the track (the good, bad, ugly)

cossie1600

I decided to jumpstart my track season with an event at Watkins Glen. It's been five months since I last went on the track, here are some observations I had today.

The good:
#1 Car didn't break down and I didn't put my blue paint on the blue armco, always a priority
#2 I had over 120 miles of driving at the track, my group had less than 10 cars. I saw a total of 7 different cars the whole day at the track.
#3 Drove my first session in damp weather, finished with a dry track.
#4 The 285 RE11 handled beautifully, the noticeable understeer I had last year with the 265/285 was improved greatly. I can see myself fighting the steering wheel a lot less. I was also surprised the tires didn't overheat after a good 30 minute session (it was about 60F today). I think I didn't heat the tires as much as I didn't have the nasty plow, creating all the extra heat on the front tires.

The bad:
#1 As much as I like the RE11, I am done with them at the track (at least WGI). They are just a lot slower at the track, especially at tracks like Watkins Glen where there are long corners.
#2 The armco put me in self preservation mode, had a tough time gitty up for some of the turns in front of the railing.

The ugly:
#1 I usually have a packing list on what I need to bring to track days. Well I had added a 5 gallon jug to the list, but I forgot to take it with me on Monday. I ended up having to drive 5 miles to the gas station to fill up 5 gallons every session. Go f-ing figures.
#2 I have had it with these XP10s. While I didn't hit the dreaded ice-mode ), I had a tough time stomping on the brake at the braking zones. The front brakes bit so hard that my front end would drift left and right. I think it has something to do with the EBD. It was so bad that I couldn't run close to the grass because I was afraid I would drop a wheel on it. I am going to run XP8 next time in order to eliminate some of that, perhaps slicks would help too. Also as the brakes heated up, I ended up getting a nasty pull under heavy braking. (not just a drift)
#3 F-ing gas was $4.30 a gallon, I burnt through like 40 gallons in the entire trip.

Someone had mentioned about pulling the ABS fuse, well I guess I missed the part where I am suppose to get new fuses for the power windows and my VVEL. I ended up having to stick the fuse back in, couldn't test out how the car would brake without the ABS

Xan

Nice overview! You mentioned the RE11's are slower, slower than what?

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cossie1600

R comps. I never used it because I couldn't find a way to get them there, but I will find a way now

tonythetiger

gosh this car takes soo much gas!

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KWV3/Eibach/StillenG3/FI CBE+LTH+34Row/Uprev/SPL/SouthBendSS/QuaifeLSD/4.08/TommyKaira/Status/VolkZE40/AP Radical BBK/Seibon/Amuse/VIS/Sparco/WorksBellGTC/RJM/Nismo

spearfish25

Cossie,

Sometimes your complaints just aren't rational, my friend. RE-11s are slower than R-comps? Well, duh.

As for the XP10s, try rolling into and out of the brakes more gradually (quickly, but smoothly without a sudden stomp). If you stomp the brakes, the ABS goes bananas. I noticed during my last autoX while stopping in the stop box that the ABS goes into and out of ice mode. It was kind of ridiculous. The brakes would bite, let go, then clamp down again and I'd finally stop. My XP10/8 combo was great on Road America last fall though.

Don't pull the ABS fuse. Disconnect the harness from the ABS module in the engine bay.

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2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

Shamu

I would agree that braking application has a lot to do with how abs reacts. I was used to good ABS systems that allowed me to stomp on things without any issues. The system on our cars does not like that. I learned a lot by disconnection my ABS system and running several days.

Rear of our cars likes to lock up under heavy braking. My first session out without abs I applied what I thought was going to be threshold level pressure and rear end came scooting out to one side. So I started to more gradually roll on the brakes and learned I didnt have any issues. However once the abs goes into ice mode its tough to recover so I will prefer to run track days without ABS. I'm much better at modulating non abs system than dealing with ice mode. I'd rather have maybe one or two lock up senarios without abs as opposed to out of control car running into a corner with little braking force. I dont like it when car takes over from me and doesnt allow me to use the brakes the way I see fit.

I have driven MX5's on DOT R slicks and can say abs systems in those cars are awesome! They actually allow tires to start to loose traction and seem to keep the car right on the brink. In all my time with that car I never lost faith in the abs system like I have with the 370 Z during competition. I know we will find a solution with a few more of us serious track guys in the cars. Its only a matter of time now.

Also to Cossie on slicks. I suspect they may complicate things for you even more on the braking side.

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Grant

cossie1600

how do you guys disable the abs?

i know r comps are faster(i had many sets), but i just kept telling myself the difference is small enough that it isnt worth. i think this is a sign that i need to step up

i ended up easing up on the brakes to get a more behaved car and my lap time didnt suffer much even with that. i reviewed my datalogs and found a few interesting data.

#1 the re11 is a very consistent tire with no huge drop off unless you abuse it, not badd for a street tire. the tire did perform slightly better on lap 1

#2 easing brake application to get more effective is as fast as stomping on it and pray the abs wont screw it up

#3 i have a 25r oil cooler, oil stayed around 260f in 60 to 70f temp

i used to think r comps are only about one sec faster per mile, i wonder if the difference is more

cossie1600

Here is a video clipping from one of the many crabwalk moment the car had. The car just slowly creepys to the right under heavy braking (around 1.06G as it was happening). The problem is really noticeable when the pads got warm. The EBD would keep the car straight, but usually not straight enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQO6ZYp85qU