Ice mode solution?

BillyBoy

I’ve got a few friends here down under that are wondering about this as a way to potentially lessen the likelihood of ice mode issues. Did you ever find some more evidence to support (or possibly rule out) your hypothesis, and figure out whether zeta was just being pro-active?

prandelia

I'm wondering if we could install an ABS pump/module from a 400Z? Which doesn't seem to have the same ABS issues at the track if you brake too hard and have a little lock in teh wheel (i.e. 4 wheel lockups that cause crashes).

I'm a club racer, tons of experience driving, know how to brake, have all the yaw sensor deletes, TC off on my car and I've flat spotted all 4 tires twice from the ABS freaking out and locking up. The ABS program in our cars is awful if you are really pushing it, you simply cannot push things in the brake zones. That's a problem for a track car.

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2014-Nismo 370Z / 2025-992 GT3RS / 2024-C8 Z07 / 2018-991.2 GT3 / 2011-997.2 GT3RS / 2016-981 GT4 / 2013-E92 M3 / 1988-E30 M3 / 2015-FRS - GLTC race car

prandelia

Ok, been talking to the Delta ABS guys, who make a nice, newer, cheaper alternative to the Bosch ABS stuff. I told them about how the removal of OE ABS sensors cause the loss of RPM/MPH function, and I want to retain that, and this was their response below. Any of you 370Z electronic guys

Talked to a few TT/race guys a track event using this system and they really liked it.

https://www.deltaabs.com/

The Delta ABS system transmits data via can, so if you can find someone to program a can bridge of some kind to transmit wheel speed data back to the factory cluster then you can retain that functionality, but the CAN stream within the Delta ABS unit is fixed and is not configurable. The Delta ABS system is very much universal, and if you have two-wire hall effect wheel speed sensors from the factory then you can reuse those and simply install the included wiring harness and ABS module and sensors, there are no vehicle specific instructions, installation and setup is the same on virtually any vehicle.

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2014-Nismo 370Z / 2025-992 GT3RS / 2024-C8 Z07 / 2018-991.2 GT3 / 2011-997.2 GT3RS / 2016-981 GT4 / 2013-E92 M3 / 1988-E30 M3 / 2015-FRS - GLTC race car

MotorvateDIY

Nope. The Nismo Z ABS module sends out additional data on the CAN bus. That got me thinking that maybe it is more track focused... BUT it has been reported here that the Nismo also has the ice mode issue... so I've hit a dead end.

MotorvateDIY

I had a quick look at the 370 and new Z FSM and I don't think it would be very easy.

The new Z has ADAS (advanced driver assistance system) with AEB (automatic emergency braking). You would need to see how the ABS module works when it doesn't see the ADAS module on the 370s CAN bus. Sometimes a "fail safe" mode can really limit functionality.

I've been told (but haven't verified) the 2022+ Nissans now use 29 bit CAN bus, so all the CAN IDs may be different and items (like speedometer) may not work without some type of CAN converter.

It also uses a 60amp fused supply, where the 370 uses a 50amp fused supply.

I'm looking to get a CAN bus log on the new Z, but in the last 2 years I've only seen one, so my odds aren't good in getting one.

MotorvateDIY

I've spent the last 2 hours going over their documentation, installed/reviewed their DeltaABS configuration program and looked at their CAN bus definition file (aka DBC file)

I am no motorsports ABS expert, but this looks like a really nice package, with good documentation!

With that said, I should be able to receive the Delta ABS wheel speeds from its CAN bus, convert it, and send it to the 370's CAN bus to drive the speedometer. Probably can also pass through any ABS warning lights from the DeltaABS to the factory dash.

Actually, I just wrapped up a small module that allows the DE 350Z tach and coolant gauge to work with a VHR engine. I've spent the last 3 years researching Nissan's CAN bus and have a very good idea of the messages/data that is on it.

From another project, I have a handful of automotive grade, CAN bus gateways that could be used for this.

I'll reach our to DeltaABS to ask for a CAN bus log of their ABS modules when on the track. I can use that to develop the firmware and test it on my test bench. (my desktop G37/370!)

If it works there, it should work in your 370.

MotorvateDIY

DeltaABS (US office) got back to me. They don't have a CAN bus log and their race car is an hour away.

I've explained to them that I'm fine waiting days, weeks or even a few months for them to get a CAN log and send it to me. I also sent an email to the UK office. (scs-delta.co.uk)

Once I have that log, I can verify (and demonstrate on video) a working speedometer and warnings lights on the gauge cluster.

The module can be developed using their documentation (DBC file), so I don't need it, but sure would like it to verify it on my test bench where it is easy to update code for any bug fixes or feature updates.

Rusty

This is above my pay grade.

__________________

浪人 - 殺し屋
"The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only"
http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

prandelia

Now we are talking! Please keep me posted.

__________________
2014-Nismo 370Z / 2025-992 GT3RS / 2024-C8 Z07 / 2018-991.2 GT3 / 2011-997.2 GT3RS / 2016-981 GT4 / 2013-E92 M3 / 1988-E30 M3 / 2015-FRS - GLTC race car

prandelia

Yes, I've already talked to some local guys using it and they have great things to say about it. A big leap over MK60 setups.

Keep me posted on how things develop. I'm finally getting hope for this issue.

__________________
2014-Nismo 370Z / 2025-992 GT3RS / 2024-C8 Z07 / 2018-991.2 GT3 / 2011-997.2 GT3RS / 2016-981 GT4 / 2013-E92 M3 / 1988-E30 M3 / 2015-FRS - GLTC race car

MotorvateDIY

The UK office forwarded my email to the US office and gave me the same answer:
"Unfortunately we don't have this information. All of the needed information is in the user manual and DBC file. "

Which is correct, the DBC file does give me everything I need... I just like to test with real data.

With a CAN log of the DeltaABS unit being driven, I can use that to make a demo video showing the factory speedometer and ABS warning lights work as expected.

Based on the information I have and what I have done in the past (controlling the gauge cluster) I'm 99% certain I can make a module that reads the DeltaABS wheel speed and send that to the gauge cluster.

I just wish I had CAN bus log file of the DeltaABS module, as that would remove all doubt!

So... the question is:
Is anyone planning on buying this ABS unit and will work with me to get the speedometer working?

prandelia

Yes, I plan to buy a kit.

__________________
2014-Nismo 370Z / 2025-992 GT3RS / 2024-C8 Z07 / 2018-991.2 GT3 / 2011-997.2 GT3RS / 2016-981 GT4 / 2013-E92 M3 / 1988-E30 M3 / 2015-FRS - GLTC race car

prandelia

Also, I can reach out to some guys here who already have a kit, and see if they can give me some CAN Bus log files, so you can test before I even have one in-hand I suppose. Would that work?

I plan to buy one of their kits soon. This offseason I wanted to get the ABS ironed out, and rebuild/re-tune my LSD.

__________________
2014-Nismo 370Z / 2025-992 GT3RS / 2024-C8 Z07 / 2018-991.2 GT3 / 2011-997.2 GT3RS / 2016-981 GT4 / 2013-E92 M3 / 1988-E30 M3 / 2015-FRS - GLTC race car

MotorvateDIY

That would be ideal!
That last thing I want to have happen, is to say that I can do something, and for some reason, I can't.

A CAN log file lets me test the solution like it is on a real car.