Nissan should offer a track firmware update or something. Charge a few hundred bucks to reflash the relevant bits at the dealership so that when you turn VDC off, it turns off the brake assist, ABLS, and ice mode code, etc...

They should also sell us 10.5 inch f & r wheels. Equip real LSD, camber arms, etc

Sorry but not happening...

370Z-R ? :tup:

Already exists :) Nismo 370Z US Spec RC (Race Car)

Sweet, just placed my order!

Yeah I'd love to have a switch. Switch on for events where I'm not activating and switch off tracks where I know I will have the issue.

I still think issue is primarily rear bias issue which some race car teams have addressed by putting smaller 350 z Brembo rear calipers on the car. Also I'm big fan of staggered setup which helps with bias issue too.

But alas we still haven't identified a cost effective solution for us aggressive brakers who want abs.

Why can't someone hack the abs software to get rid of ice mode for off road use only? How hard is that? I don need race car abs just don't ever want ice mode on the track.

I'll be running XP-10+XP-8 this upcoming weekend instead of my previous XP8+XP8 combo. Between that and the new Stillen front brake ducting, I'm hoping that the combination of reduced front temps and higher front heat tolerance means I'll get less front fade in general, which hopefully will keep me out of any bad cases of ice mode.

That and I've spent the past month practicing repeatedly on the street to get better at brake pedal modulation and smooth pedal engagement, so I think I stand a much better chance of not diving into the ABS in general. I've gotten very consistent at not hitting ABS on the street, but we'll see with so much more to focus on at the track. Even if I do, hopefully with a stronger relative bite in the front those will lock before the rears do, again reducing ice-mode odds.

I have same big brembo calipers, floating rotors and huge pads as grand am team zero fade and still have ice mode. Yes you can get very proficient at knowing how not to activate abs but you are still likely losing time in braking zones compared to good abs system. Grand am cars they could stand on the brakes and their system would hual cars down quicker than natural talent. I still choose to go without abs as I'd rather get threshold braking and maybe just a little beyond threshold to make the car do what I want. Stock abs doesn't give me much choice.

Is there ever a good reason to lock the tires up on a non-ABS car though? Seems like you want threshold braking regardless. I agree it'd be nice to just be able to stomp the pedal and know the system will do the right thing, but I'm not about to drop that many thousand on a racing ABS system (and shouldn't have to just to get rid of Ice Mode).

We wired our switch this weekend at Long Beach. Works like a charm but even with DTC 30s on the rear it's still heavy rear biased so I left the ABS on.

I was pleased to find out that after killing the ABS on track, you can re-enable it without having to shut the car off or reset anything. That means on-track enabling and disabling. :happydance:

What did you wire the ABS switch on? The same center console fuse others have pulled? I thought that also killed the brake lights, which is kind of a downer.

If I recall correctly, we wired it so that it interrupts power to the ABS controller. I think we lose some other sensors like yaw, but it didn't seem unhappy when I had it off. We didn't look at the brake lights... maybe we should check that out - make sure they still work :icon17:

just putting in my two cents from what I have experienced in my "showroom stock" endurance racing...
Brakes are one of the most....CRITICAL areas for lap times and safety.
There are MANY aftermarket pads that claim insane brake/clamping force numbers and ramping up temps etc. Stay away from all of these ESP if you are having any ABS issues such as "ice mode"
PAGID makes an excellant pad for this EXACT scenario.
I can tell you this....our RC comes with BOSCH racing adjustable ABS and we have still switched to a pad with reduced brake bite...and been able to reduce braking distance.
The other issue "high clamping" brakes pads do it kill your turn in.These pads ramp up so fast and can generate excessive heat...their release isnt as good.
Poor release meaning the driver has begun to reduce brake pedal pressure...but the pads are still dragging/clamping on the rotors..this doesnt let the front tires turn ....and it gives the driver a huge sensation of "understeer" at corner entry.
For those track guys /racers with a LARGE budget...and are serious about your track days ....source out Kurt Jung and inquire about the TEVIS motorsports ABS pump....its virtually plug and play...its also about $8500....but...going 140 at the end of the back striaght at Mid Ohio in your car with iffy brakes ?????? How much does crash damage cost?
Any upgrade to the rotor and caliper size only enhances the problem...doesnt solve it.
Not sure what the OEM setup on the 370Z is....but another option to look at....is a vacuum chamber reservoir. This will help keep a built up vacuum to assist the brakes.
Assisted brakes rely on vacuum to help feed the system....if you use it up...the brake pedal gets hard...the pistons are no longer compressing as much...and the car doesnt stop. The added chamber gives lets the system build up and have a larger supply to assist it. Escp helpful for cars with large cams....or forced induction cars.
Again...back to the pads and too much initial ramp up / bite....every single ABS pulse of the pedal ...uses and takes away vacuum. So a bunch of quick long hard hits...and your supply is gone...pedal goes stiff.
Systems like the TEVIS are programmed to "cycle" faster and have a higher sampling freq....the pedal will have very fast softer hits...and it uses the vacuum a lot more efficiently.
My first suggestion....Pagid pads.
Dwnshift

Can you make any recommendations for us HPDE, street tire guys? My first thought was the RS14 front and RS4-4 rear on a 4piston front, 2piston rear 350Z. A friend suggested RS19 front and rear.

Nismo Brembo Brake Kit
 

this might be a fix, it mentions that with this BBK system, you do not have to worry about ABS Freezing "Ice Mode" ....ABS 誤動作. it says this brake system re-adjust brake bias to its optimal.....so i guess we can officially agree that ice mode is a result of brake bias?? (this is coming from NISMO official website) then if this is true, then playing around with different brake pads F and R should help determine what is best setup....but i still see lots of ice mode complaining even with numerous changes on brake pad setup.

I bought my 09 Z couple months ago planning to make it a dedicated track car, but obviously without much research.

1. 1st problem noticed was oil temp, i ran into limp mode while doing some mild spirited run on mountain roads (WHY does this happen on a NA car)

2. now, i've always know that Z33 had ABS Ice mode issue but was assuming Nissan had fixed that on Z34, but obviously i was wrong.

so, unless a race ABS system is used, it just can't be tracked safely. I have 10+ years track experience and uses my brake pretty damn hard.


i'm a guy coming from S2000, NSX, EVO, and Sti; never had to worry about ICE Mode as long as i changed out pad, fluid, brake duct, and SS line....worry free.

now with the issues 370Z is having, it is going to be a costly project to safely track as the track PIC has many slow turn and requires very hard braking in about 4 corners. 2012.11/25-OTGP

sorry guys, i'm not here to bash on 370z.... i like it otherwise would not have bought it.......i just think the people that track 370z knowing ice mode may bite you and catch you off guard are brave;)

welcome to the forum! don't you wish you came here first? :)

i'm skeptical the issue is "solved" with a new set of calipers and pads... one theory is that the abs computer looks for differential wheel spin rates as its trigger for ice mode... calipers and pads will help but never completely eliminate differential wheel spin rates - also requires suspension tuning and driver input changes... the real solution is going to be new ABS software or computer

fortunately I haven't had the issue in my last 5-6 track outings... maybe something about the tracks I am on... was worst for me on short technical tracks, esp where track surface had both turns and bumps in braking zones

would encourage you to read some of the track car build journals - mine's linked below

I beached our 370z race car this past weekend in turn 10 (wondered if it was ever going to stop before I came out the other end of the gravel and hit a wall).

Careful is all I can say. I have 14 years of road racing, 10 different cars, never had a similar issue, scary deal. I do think too aggressive on pads on front could be a culprit. We switched from XP20 fronts to XP12's and it was "better".

sorry to hear that zoomzoom. I guess I count my self as fortunate, because I have never had ice mode, and Roat A is my home track. I brake very deep into 10a. I run 14" stoptech trophy, St60 front St41 rear, with XP12 pads on Hoosiers or Pirellis, and Hawk blue on NT-01s, same compound front and rear.

Anyone else tried the vacuum reservoir or aux vacuum pump trick and care to chime in?
Personally I haven't run into the issue, but I think it's just been timing, my home track, and luck...

mike b today posted on his journal re vacuum res - didn't work

Abs is overrated


This
[IMG]http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D1...1EDB3FE02B.JPG[/IMG]

Plus this

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--S...1956D6D64C.JPG

Equals cheap alternative until I get spendy abs system

Pulling abs off the car bypassing it and using proportioning valve on rears. Losing abs system weight off front and putting weight in middle with proportioning valve. Big ole fat tires should give me lots of stopping ability without abs.

Hi Shamu,
I was thinking about proportional valve too as it may be the most cost effective way to fix ice mode for now until a race abs is used.
May i know the tire spec, bbk, and pad you are using?

I will use r888 as i got pretty good deal here.

Thanks lot

I'm sure a lot of it is track, driving style, suspension setup, etc, etc. My last few times out I've had zero Ice Mode issues (after having it a few times before). Doing some "biasing" via pads (softer pads in rear) helped a little but it was still there (but much easier to manage), when I was on Carbotech. When I switched to CL's RC6/RC5+ pads I also backed off my rear swaybar by one stiffness setting, and between the two it went away completely. I think the sway may have been more influential than the pad change - a little less stiffness in the rear = less likely for a rear tire to catch air in a bumpy braking zone and lock up for a split second to trigger it.

It may also be due to fact I run bigger tire and stagger than many of you guys. I run 315 rear and 295 front. I also have pads that dont bite hard in rear and have huge Brembo clampers in front.

But I did go from ice mode on regular basis to none after the vaccum fix. I also had a faulty rear caliper that was causing issues.

But now Im just simplifying as I dont want to deal with posibility of ice mode. with new 335 rear and 315 tire setup Im confident that lack of abs wont be a huge deal.

I got less of it with the XP8 vs. the XP10 too. I am not even sure if it is a balance thing, but annoying nontheless

You are making your contact patch wider and your tires will take longer to come up to temp, both of which make locking up easier.

Lol. I knew I should be downsizing tires. I've been doing this a while. Can assure you I won't have trouble getting these A6s warm.

Easy fix ever heard of tire warmers.
http://www.autoracing1.com/Images/20...reWarmers2.jpg

Naw I m pretty sure 3000 lbs of car, driver and fuel will be plenty to get soft compounds up to heat very quickly.

As a hillclimber I'm pretty good at figuring out my maximum width as there is no time for tire warming. Bring rears up with a burn out in staging and with big heavy front end 315s come up to temp very quickly.

I have run this car with 285s in back, 295s, 315s and now 335. That rear end even on first few laps stayed better stuck with bigger tires. It's just compound management.

If this was a 2500 lb car I'd agree tougher to get tires up to temp but this is a heavy car. I have over heated r6 295 in this car.

Yaw Sensor Fix - Track Talk - Zclub - Australia's Largest Nissan 370Z and Nissan 350Z Forum

Anyone thoughts on this

Where you been? Old news that's works. It's been talked about a lot. I did this over the winter. I'll be using it on my next trackday. :driving:

I know, i know. I just been so focused on the motor aspect of my build.

Anyone knows what parts I need to get to fix the vacuum issue? Thanks.

No ice mode here running xp12/xp10 on RS-3's but after reading Dorans possible issue with the pads not releasing and understreer as a result might be my issue! My cars got horrible understeer and even worse snap oversteer when I try to correct it in a turn. I've added my rear sway back in to see if it'll help and give back some oversteer but one suggested is to put the OEM rear pads back in. Also going to check alignment, have Stance fix my rear coils for better adjustment and go from there. I still think an ABS delete and proportioning valve is in my future.

Lets us know how your results go?

I pulled the yaw sensor, and it still does not completely cure the ice mode. It cured the ice mode while trail braking, but i do not have complete faith on the straight line braking.. Also ran into SEVERE ice mode on wet skid pad which caused me to nearly go off and hit the parked trailer at shenandoah. Only "guaranteed"cure while on stock system everything + yaw sensor removal is to get grippiest tire to prevent almost all tire slippage. This is extremely distressing and made me lose all faith on braking after almost 30 track events

Few questions for you guys, the yaw switch, if done will this help out with the ice mode during straight braking? This is the only time I run into issues while autocrossing. I don't seem to remember it as bad when I was running 285/35/19 but when I went down to 275/35/18 it seems it locks up more on higher speed braking.
Stupid question but this does not turn off abs all together correct?

Disabling the yaw sensor affects the VDC. It keeps the system from applying a rear brake caliper during cornering. Trying to straightening the car up. Which can be very unnerving. :eek: It doesn't kill it completely thou. How disabling the yaw sensor affects ice mode. Far as I know. No one has brought that up before.

ABS still works in straight line with yaw sensor pulled. However, this does not cure ICE mode completely, but it does somewhat alleviate excessive ABS intrusions during braking which leads many to believe that it somewhat "Cures" ice mode, but it doesnt. i ran into it past weekend and it scared me to death.

Track with no ABS
 

A couple of questions here read entire thread. Want to track car with no ABS to stay out of ice mode. Have had ice mode at autox with sport tech sport pads. Took fuse out for ABS and did some low speed test runs, under 50 and applied firm brake pressure and car rear wants to jump to right so car like what is stated is rear biased. Want if possible to stay away from proportioning valve so have some questions. Car set up is 305 square slicks, AST 4300 double adjustable shocks, 1200 front, 900 rear springs. Akebono sport brakes. Working now on brake ducts for both front and rear.

Has anyone got a track day pad set up that bias car so it can be ran without ABS? High temp rear low friction, high temp front medium friction?
Was a thinking about putting base brakes on rear, smaller rotor, single piston caliper less braking force, has anyone done this, was it sucessful?

Thanks