Well, even if you don't get to the point of boiling off the fluid, just fading out the front pads from overheating them a bit can get you into ice
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03-27-2012, 03:18 AM | #196 (permalink) |
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Well, even if you don't get to the point of boiling off the fluid, just fading out the front pads from overheating them a bit can get you into ice mode easier. The fronts fade first, and then the rears lock up before the fronts do, etc...
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03-27-2012, 03:34 AM | #197 (permalink) |
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Yes this is true, especially for the less worthy track pads (streetable track pads etc).
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03-27-2012, 09:22 AM | #198 (permalink) |
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Ice Mode = super hard pedal, car wont stop.
Brake Fade = super soft pedal, car wont stop. It's my opinion that the Ice Mode problem is a software issue. We're running Hawk DTC 70 (f) and DTC 60 (r) on the World Challenge car with Racing Brake 2-piece rotors and am still able to get Ice Mode easily, even before everything has overheated. We're working on a solution, but I think it's going to involve proportioning the brakes properly and installing an ABS disable switch in the cockpit (probably not something you can easily do or even want to on a street car). It's all about overall pedal pressure, how quickly you apply it and the initial bite on your pads. When it happens you have to give up the pedal and re-apply ... kinda like you do in a non-ABS car Problem is that takes some quick thinking as you're hurtling towards certain doom.
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03-27-2012, 09:50 AM | #199 (permalink) |
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^ Yeah, I get that they're distinct. But fading the fronts on relatively low-end pads isn't a binary condition. As they get "a little" faded, where the pedal's a little softer and your braking distance gets a bit longer, the bias shifts to the rear and then ice-mode kicks in sooner than it did on the previous lap, causing the "omg what happened to my brakes" reaction .
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03-27-2012, 02:24 PM | #200 (permalink) | |
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Also stupid Brake Assist activates the ABS prematurely if you jump on the brake pedal swiftly but haven't pushed the pedal hard enough to activate ABS. Unfortunately Brake Assist is counter productive to what we are taught as proper on-track driving skills. The ABS system in general does not deal well with grippy track pads and/or low grip conditions. Short of going to a full-race spec ABS system I think you are better off disabling the ABS if you can get things proportioned properly.
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03-27-2012, 02:47 PM | #201 (permalink) |
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Nissan should offer a track firmware update or something. Charge a few hundred bucks to reflash the relevant bits at the dealership so that when you turn VDC off, it turns off the brake assist, ABLS, and ice mode code, etc...
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03-27-2012, 03:09 PM | #202 (permalink) | |
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Sorry but not happening... |
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03-27-2012, 03:28 PM | #203 (permalink) |
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370Z-R ?
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03-27-2012, 03:44 PM | #204 (permalink) |
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Already exists Nismo 370Z US Spec RC (Race Car)
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03-27-2012, 03:45 PM | #205 (permalink) | |
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04-16-2012, 11:26 PM | #206 (permalink) | |
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I still think issue is primarily rear bias issue which some race car teams have addressed by putting smaller 350 z Brembo rear calipers on the car. Also I'm big fan of staggered setup which helps with bias issue too. But alas we still haven't identified a cost effective solution for us aggressive brakers who want abs. Why can't someone hack the abs software to get rid of ice mode for off road use only? How hard is that? I don need race car abs just don't ever want ice mode on the track.
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04-16-2012, 11:53 PM | #207 (permalink) |
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I'll be running XP-10+XP-8 this upcoming weekend instead of my previous XP8+XP8 combo. Between that and the new Stillen front brake ducting, I'm hoping that the combination of reduced front temps and higher front heat tolerance means I'll get less front fade in general, which hopefully will keep me out of any bad cases of ice mode.
That and I've spent the past month practicing repeatedly on the street to get better at brake pedal modulation and smooth pedal engagement, so I think I stand a much better chance of not diving into the ABS in general. I've gotten very consistent at not hitting ABS on the street, but we'll see with so much more to focus on at the track. Even if I do, hopefully with a stronger relative bite in the front those will lock before the rears do, again reducing ice-mode odds. |
04-17-2012, 01:09 AM | #208 (permalink) | |
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04-17-2012, 09:53 AM | #209 (permalink) |
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Is there ever a good reason to lock the tires up on a non-ABS car though? Seems like you want threshold braking regardless. I agree it'd be nice to just be able to stomp the pedal and know the system will do the right thing, but I'm not about to drop that many thousand on a racing ABS system (and shouldn't have to just to get rid of Ice Mode).
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04-17-2012, 10:00 AM | #210 (permalink) | |
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I was pleased to find out that after killing the ABS on track, you can re-enable it without having to shut the car off or reset anything. That means on-track enabling and disabling.
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