Ice mode solution?

SPOHN · 01-25-2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Doesn't make much difference, just means that the rear wheels are tied together to the drive shaft and engine braking effect will be distributed more evenly to the rear wheels. The stock VLSD unit will have a similar effect just not as strong, but in a straight line this isn't a huge factor.

Mike · 01-25-2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Okay there's one vote for equal compound pads...

Mike, do the braking zones at your most frequented tracks have bumps or anything that would unsettle the rear? Also, do you tend to brake straight line only or use trail braking at all?

I don't think that most braking zones at my tracks (VIR, Barber, Road Atl, Little talladega) have many bumps. Maybe at Roebling, but I've only been there the one weekend and don't think it did at all.

I do 90% of my braking in a straight line, stabbing the brakes hard and then trailing off into the turn. I used to street brake, but Sharif and Bryan Settle cured me of that. I actually think that I am only able to keep up with faster cars because I brake much later and make up lots of time there.

Cossie,
On the C6, I had a widebody conversion and ran Z06 brakes for 2/3rds of the time I owned it. On both the Z51 and Z06 calipers, I ran hawk HP+ pads, but until my last year in the C6, I was only doing 2 track days per year and not at the level I am now. 3 years ago, my last year in the C6, I started doing two per month for 6 months a year. The only brake issue I ever had on the Z06 is when ALSM driver Shields Bergstrom took me out for a session at VIR driving my car and he boiled the fluid, but had no ice or fade issues either.

Mike · 01-25-2012, 10:40 PM

Just a thought I had that I posted in another thread. It could be total BS though, I really don't know, just kicking around an idea.

OK, its been in my head stewing for a bit, but I think I know why I am against a lower compound in the rear and why a proportioning valve won't work.

The car has EFBD. it senses each wheel and applies more brake as needed. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I do think, even with a proportioning valve, it will still direct more braking to the rear or front as needed, so with a valve, you may actually decrease brake performance, as it will be reacting to the lower or higher rear brake pressure.

Even with different pads, its still reacting, which is why I use the same compound all around.

spearfish25 · 01-25-2012, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

The only brake issue I ever had on the Z06 is when ALSM driver Shields Bergstrom took me out for a session at VIR driving my car and he boiled the fluid, but had no ice or fade issues either.

I did some hot laps with Shields at Autobahn in Joliet. We were in a race-spec Audi TT. That dude can drive...

Mike · 01-25-2012, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

I did some hot laps with Shields at Autobahn in Joliet. We were in a race-spec Audi TT. That dude can drive...

He was about 30mph faster than me everywhere, but he gave me the confidence in my car that I picked up about 10mph throughout the track.

cossie1600 · 01-26-2012, 12:08 AM

T1 at VIR is bad. You get in at the wrong spot and you will get ice mode. I had a Z51 C6. The brake issues on that car is the same thing as my 370Z. The C6 did have more front bias and carried way more speed down the straight, it can be nerve racking going into T1 at 146mph! I have gone as deep as the 4 marker, but the brakes would burn right up and I would get nothing for the next corner.

I used the same Carbotechs on both the C6 and 370.

Speaking of EBD, I don't know if you guys had an issue with the car grabbing to one side under braking. For some odd reason, my car loves doing that at Watkins Glen. I am not sure why, but it sure flips me out to get the car grabbing right at over 100mph. 0411 370z WGI Unstable brakes.avi - YouTube

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

I don't think that most braking zones at my tracks (VIR, Barber, Road Atl, Little talladega) have many bumps. Maybe at Roebling, but I've only been there the one weekend and don't think it did at all.

I do 90% of my braking in a straight line, stabbing the brakes hard and then trailing off into the turn. I used to street brake, but Sharif and Bryan Settle cured me of that. I actually think that I am only able to keep up with faster cars because I brake much later and make up lots of time there.

Cossie,
On the C6, I had a widebody conversion and ran Z06 brakes for 2/3rds of the time I owned it. On both the Z51 and Z06 calipers, I ran hawk HP+ pads, but until my last year in the C6, I was only doing 2 track days per year and not at the level I am now. 3 years ago, my last year in the C6, I started doing two per month for 6 months a year. The only brake issue I ever had on the Z06 is when ALSM driver Shields Bergstrom took me out for a session at VIR driving my car and he boiled the fluid, but had no ice or fade issues either.

ChrisSlicks · 01-26-2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

Speaking of EBD, I don't know if you guys had an issue with the car grabbing to one side under braking. For some odd reason, my car loves doing that at Watkins Glen. I am not sure why, but it sure flips me out to get the car grabbing right at over 100mph. 0411 370z WGI Unstable brakes.avi - YouTube

It's the pavement there, concrete patch on one side and asphalt on the other. One side has more traction than the other and it pulls as a result. Fortunately it pulls you towards the corner so it's not all bad and it is after the initial braking application.

cossie1600 · 01-26-2012, 09:08 AM

Interesting, never thought that would make a difference. It was nerve wrecking the car kept pulling to the right

ChrisSlicks · 01-26-2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

Interesting, never thought that would make a difference. It was nerve wrecking the car kept pulling to the right

Yeah it can definitely throw you off. There are concrete patches everywhere at WGI, some of them are grippier than the asphalt and some are polished smooth and less grippy. Some are grippy in the dry and then slick in the wet, so you have to learn multiple lines.

clintfocus · 01-30-2012, 03:19 AM

Drove buttonwillow raceway park config #13 clockwise(dubbed the time attack config ) Sunday. Ran dtc 60s front, Oem rear pads, bridgestone Re11 street tires._No ice mode all day even over the brake zones that were bumpy. Ran 2.04:140 best lap time, oil temps hit 230 max just a few times with the Nissan motorsports oil cooler

wstar · 02-14-2012, 01:13 PM

Hmm, for my next event, I'm seriously considering leaving my front XP8's in place and using my Bobcat (CT street pad) on the rear and seeing what happens. Worst case I burn up my rear street pads over the course of one weekend and have to get new ones. I'm also planning to making some ducting improvements in the front before then, but I don't think I'll have a solution that brings air fully into the spindle, just into the wheel well for now.

Shamu · 02-19-2012, 10:24 AM

This is what Grand Am team did to address rear bias issues. They used 350 Z nismo rear brake caliper and rotor. Well that and an $8k racing abs system.

SPOHN · 02-19-2012, 11:12 AM

Mmmmm, inverted coilover. Me like

mikegreco16 · 03-27-2012, 01:39 AM

Hey Guys and Gals I had a 350z 35th anniversary and was running track pads and RE01R tires. Anyways I had the problem that Car and Driver had with the 370z at their lightning lap. Now maybe we are talking about two different things. But per their investigation they reported that the problem was the 370z did not have proper brake cooling. So is that something separate from Ice Mode? Or is it the same thing. Because when I had my experience it was exactly how C&D described theirs, I pushed the pedal down and got no breaking power whatsoever, therefore I had to go off course. I'm concerned because I want a 370z, but do not want to relive this again. I saw that stillen now makes brake ducts has anyone tried those, if so do they prevent the problem.

ChrisSlicks · 03-27-2012, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikegreco16

Hey Guys and Gals I had a 350z 35th anniversary and was running track pads and RE01R tires. Anyways I had the problem that Car and Driver had with the 370z at their lightning lap. Now maybe we are talking about two different things. But per their investigation they reported that the problem was the 370z did not have proper brake cooling. So is that something separate from Ice Mode? Or is it the same thing. Because when I had my experience it was exactly how C&D described theirs, I pushed the pedal down and got no breaking power whatsoever, therefore I had to go off course. I'm concerned because I want a 370z, but do not want to relive this again. I saw that stillen now makes brake ducts has anyone tried those, if so do they prevent the problem.

Two different problems. The C&D problem was boiled brake fluid accelerated by using the stock pads well beyond their designed operating temperature causing them to wear prematurely (thereby eliminating the insulating pad layer that protects the caliper). Heat is definitely an issue with the 370Z brakes so by adding cooling you are less likely to boil the fluid. Whether or not it will help with ice-mode remains to be seen as the kit was only just released.

01-25-2012, 10:40 PM	#183 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2186	Just a thought I had that I posted in another thread. It could be total BS though, I really don't know, just kicking around an idea. OK, its been in my head stewing for a bit, but I think I know why I am against a lower compound in the rear and why a proportioning valve won't work. The car has EFBD. it senses each wheel and applies more brake as needed. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I do think, even with a proportioning valve, it will still direct more braking to the rear or front as needed, so with a valve, you may actually decrease brake performance, as it will be reacting to the lower or higher rear brake pressure. Even with different pads, its still reacting, which is why I use the same compound all around. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

02-14-2012, 01:13 PM	#191 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Hmm, for my next event, I'm seriously considering leaving my front XP8's in place and using my Bobcat (CT street pad) on the rear and seeing what happens. Worst case I burn up my rear street pads over the course of one weekend and have to get new ones. I'm also planning to making some ducting improvements in the front before then, but I don't think I'll have a solution that brings air fully into the spindle, just into the wheel well for now. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

02-19-2012, 10:24 AM	#192 (permalink)
Shamu A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 1,059 Drives: 370Z Racecar Rep Power: 19	This is what Grand Am team did to address rear bias issues. They used 350 Z nismo rear brake caliper and rotor. Well that and an $8k racing abs system. __________________ Grant

02-19-2012, 11:12 AM	#193 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 46 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 221	Mmmmm, inverted coilover. Me like __________________

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01-26-2012, 09:08 AM	#188 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	Interesting, never thought that would make a difference. It was nerve wrecking the car kept pulling to the right

01-30-2012, 03:19 AM	#190 (permalink)
clintfocus Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: los angeles Age: 39 Posts: 933 Drives: 370z, EK Civic, F150 Rep Power: 15	Drove buttonwillow raceway park config #13 clockwise(dubbed the time attack config ) Sunday. Ran dtc 60s front, Oem rear pads, bridgestone Re11 street tires._No ice mode all day even over the brake zones that were bumpy. Ran 2.04:140 best lap time, oil temps hit 230 max just a few times with the Nissan motorsports oil cooler

03-27-2012, 01:39 AM	#194 (permalink)
mikegreco16 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: chicago Posts: 9 Drives: Jeep Rep Power: 13	Hey Guys and Gals I had a 350z 35th anniversary and was running track pads and RE01R tires. Anyways I had the problem that Car and Driver had with the 370z at their lightning lap. Now maybe we are talking about two different things. But per their investigation they reported that the problem was the 370z did not have proper brake cooling. So is that something separate from Ice Mode? Or is it the same thing. Because when I had my experience it was exactly how C&D described theirs, I pushed the pedal down and got no breaking power whatsoever, therefore I had to go off course. I'm concerned because I want a 370z, but do not want to relive this again. I saw that stillen now makes brake ducts has anyone tried those, if so do they prevent the problem.