Major Track Faults of the 370

spearfish25 · 10-18-2010, 06:00 PM

You may very well have a bad CSC. Are you sure you don't accidentally rest your foot on the clutch as you approach a corner? It's easy to prepare for a downshift, rest your foot on the clutch (partially, even just slightly depressing it), brake for the corner, and then finally shift. If the clutch is partially engaged during this time, you could overheat it.

FL 4Motion · 10-18-2010, 06:04 PM

I was expecting to see brake pads and oil cooler as the two top things.

Like others have said, replacing the fluid with some good DOT 4 like Motul and bleeding the lines should do the trick. If not, they you probably have a bad CSC.

daisuke149 · 10-18-2010, 06:36 PM

it happened to zcarman also at the znationals track day. but his came back up after he let it cool. I would def say that changing out the fluid is a MUST for everyone who plans on doin this.

Push370zzz · 10-18-2010, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

You may very well have a bad CSC. Are you sure you don't accidentally rest your foot on the clutch as you approach a corner? It's easy to prepare for a downshift, rest your foot on the clutch (partially, even just slightly depressing it), brake for the corner, and then finally shift. If the clutch is partially engaged during this time, you could overheat it.

No, I made absolutely sure that I was not riding the clutch this last time. I do know better than that. My real question is what could be causing the engagement point to move closer to the engine and eventually stick to the floor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

I was expecting to see brake pads and oil cooler as the two top things.

Like others have said, replacing the fluid with some good DOT 4 like Motul and bleeding the lines should do the trick. If not, they you probably have a bad CSC.

Brake pads and oil cooler have already been taken care of

I will try doing this first, if I have a bad CSC how do I tell the dealer to fix it without having to explain its weak point is at the track?

ZCarMan · 10-18-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

it happened to zcarman also at the znationals track day. but his came back up after he let it cool. I would def say that changing out the fluid is a MUST for everyone who plans on doin this.

As Daisuke said, after letting it cool down the clutch was fine. When I got back from Z Nats I replaced the oil (Nissan Ester), brake/clutch (Motul RBF-600). Haven't been back on the track since Taladegha but clutch is performing fine.

cossie1600 · 10-18-2010, 09:35 PM

It takes 30 minutes to bleed the clutch.

djpathfinder · 10-18-2010, 09:52 PM

Since bleeding is mentioned, what's the best way to bleed brake lines and the clutch: 1. empty all old fluid first, then fill with new and bleed, or 2. fill reservoir periodically as the old fluid is bled out?

BGTV8 · 10-18-2010, 10:47 PM

Is the clutch pressure occuring because you are downshifting too early and carrying too many engine rev's for the road speed as you downshift.

Most folks tracking their cars for the first time inevitably can carry one gear higher than they reckon - if you reckon your need 2nd, try using 3rd instead, same for 3rd/4th. IMHO, 2nd gear is only required for a 25mph ultra-tight hairpin - there are no tracks here in Ausrtralia with a 2nd gear corner, apart from some extended gymkhana tracks (Autotest is the nearest US equivalent I think, although Autotest seems to involve higher speeds than I'd expect with a gymkhana, so maybe I am wrong here).

The reason a clutch overheats is because it is slipped. This can only occur if the driver is modulating traction via the clutch and the friction plates overheat and lose effectvieness, OR road speed is too high for engine speed and the clutch is acting as a brake and slipping .... or the clutch pressure plate clamping force is exceeded - which can occur if downshifting at too high a road speed for the gear.

I regulary run 20-25 minute sessions in my Z34 and have never had a clutch problem.

As a rule, downshift is the last thing you do before turn-in .... braking is effectively done, execute the downshift whilst still on the brakes, and turn the car in and get onto the gas in one easy fluid motion as you hot the corner apex - engine speed needs to be such that you do not run out of rev's before most of the steering lock is off the car and you are pointing at the next straight - if you find yourself running out of revs close to the corner exit, then try entering the corner in the next higher gear. The VQ37 engine is torque-rich and can carry a gear at 3500/4000 rpm as well as at 5000 or 5500 rpm.

REmember, corner entry technique is brake, downshift into the gear you need to exit the corner right before turning-in and thengetting back onto the gas as you apex ..... on downshift, gigure that you need to be at or slightly above 50% engine speed 3800-4200rpm ideally, never more than 5000rpm especially if you are using 2nd gear !!

Of course, you may well have a warranty issue with your clutch, but not especially likely.

RB

Push370zzz · 10-18-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTV8

Is the clutch pressure occuring because you are downshifting too early and carrying too many engine rev's for the road speed as you downshift.

Most folks tracking their cars for the first time inevitably can carry one gear higher than they reckon - if you reckon your need 2nd, try using 3rd instead, same for 3rd/4th. IMHO, 2nd gear is only required for a 25mph ultra-tight hairpin - there are no tracks here in Ausrtralia with a 2nd gear corner, apart from some extended gymkhana tracks (Autotest is the nearest US equivalent I think, although Autotest seems to involve higher speeds than I'd expect with a gymkhana, so maybe I am wrong here).

The reason a clutch overheats is because it is slipped. This can only occur if the driver is modulating traction via the clutch and the friction plates overheat and lose effectvieness, OR road speed is too high for engine speed and the clutch is acting as a brake and slipping .... or the clutch pressure plate clamping force is exceeded - which can occur if downshifting at too high a road speed for the gear.

I regulary run 20-25 minute sessions in my Z34 and have never had a clutch problem.

As a rule, downshift is the last thing you do before turn-in .... braking is effectively done, execute the downshift whilst still on the brakes, and turn the car in and get onto the gas in one easy fluid motion as you hot the corner apex - engine speed needs to be such that you do not run out of rev's before most of the steering lock is off the car and you are pointing at the next straight - if you find yourself running out of revs close to the corner exit, then try entering the corner in the next higher gear. The VQ37 engine is torque-rich and can carry a gear at 3500/4000 rpm as well as at 5000 or 5500 rpm.

REmember, corner entry technique is brake, downshift into the gear you need to exit the corner right before turning-in and thengetting back onto the gas as you apex ..... on downshift, gigure that you need to be at or slightly above 50% engine speed 3800-4200rpm ideally, never more than 5000rpm especially if you are using 2nd gear !!

Of course, you may well have a warranty issue with your clutch, but not especially likely.

RB

The clutch is not slipping or being slipped, I only shift to 2nd once on the track and when the clutch is out I'm doing about 4500 RPM in 2nd. I am pretty sure since nobody else is experiencing this it is a problem with my car...thanks all. I will try flushing with a better fluid and lines and see how it goes.

cossie1600 · 10-19-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djpathfinder

Since bleeding is mentioned, what's the best way to bleed brake lines and the clutch: 1. empty all old fluid first, then fill with new and bleed, or 2. fill reservoir periodically as the old fluid is bled out?

Technically, go under the car and open the bleeder valve. Since I am lazy, I did what you said. Of course I have been doing it since the car had about 2500 miles.

ChrisSlicks · 10-19-2010, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djpathfinder

Since bleeding is mentioned, what's the best way to bleed brake lines and the clutch: 1. empty all old fluid first, then fill with new and bleed, or 2. fill reservoir periodically as the old fluid is bled out?

I empty the old fluid out with a high-tech turkey baster. The clutch reservoir is pretty small. I haven't had any clutch stick issues in a couple of hard track days but I did swap the fluid out before going as CSC's are prone to overheating.

Mike · 10-19-2010, 10:18 AM

Fortunately, I haven't had any clutch issues at all with over 4000 track miles on the car now. But for those with problems, I would flush the system and replace fluid with Motul or some other high temp brake fluid.

Fuel starvation is another issue though. At Road America with Spearfish this weekend, it was fricking ridiculous! Engine stumbling exiting the carousel with only two dots down on fuel, once when I was only one dot down! I couldn't go more than 15 minutes into a session before it started happening.

wishihadnav · 10-19-2010, 04:19 PM

damn..i hope somebody comes up with a tank baffle or some other solution for this..

Pharmacist · 10-19-2010, 07:53 PM

too many smarta$$es here

Lay off the OP, he's not an idiot. I too get the exact same problem with the clutch. It happened to me 3 times when on mosport ddt during lapping days. Near the end of a 15 or 20 min session, my clutch gets stuck to the bottom and i have to lift it up with my foot. I then pull over into the pits and within a few seconds the clutch is fine, albeit a bit soft feeling. And if you didn't know, mosport ddt is a short, tight twisty low speed track done almost totally in 2nd gear except for the one single straight where you upshift to 3rd for a few seconds before downshifting into 2nd again for the turn. So the clutch can't be working that hard. And yes I had the stock fluid.

And a few days ago I was lapping at shannonville. The clutch didn't get stuck but after the same 20 min session the clutch would get progressively softer, and i got the occasional gear grinding when shifting. My guess is that it seems the clutch fluid boils a bit due to excess heat after about 15 or 20 min of hard lapping. I'll upgrade the clutch fluid over the winter and next year see if the problem replicates itself.

I experienced fuel starvation on shannonville that same day near the end of my 3rd 20 min session. I was running low on gas, about 4 dots (25% of the tank). Then on turn 3 which is a sharp right, the car just died down and i lost all drive to the wheels. the engine was idling at barely 1000 rpm. I was flooring the throttle and the engine wasnt responding. I shuffled through the gears 1 to 4 trying to get the car moving and it didn't. I was able to get it to creep very very slowly in 1st gear. It was pretty scary since i was stationary in the middle of the racing line, and a couple of cars whizzed by my side at 70 km/h or so. Finally I crept enough to get it to the grass and left it idling in neutral for a few seconds. by that time the fuel level was down to 2 dots. After a few seconds i tried to rev it and it responded, so i took off again to finish my lap. On the same lap at turn 10 which is a right hand hairpin before a long straight, right after the turn and getting ready to floor it for the very long back straight, the car died again for a few seconds before responding again. By that time fuel was down to 1 dot. I was able to finish my lap with no problems but pulled into the pits at the end. After leaving the car idling for a few minutes the fuel level crept back up to 4 dots again

I left the track soon after and went back home.

In addition I did experience ice mode regularly after hard braking from long straights, especially since both mosport ddt and shannonville are very bumpy tracks. But that's no problem. As soon as i feel the abs pulsate the brake pedal i lift and then reapply the brakes and that seems to defeat ice mode.

Push370zzz · 10-19-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

too many smarta$$es here

Lay off the OP, he's not an idiot. I too get the exact same problem with the clutch. It happened to me 3 times when on mosport ddt during lapping days. Near the end of a 15 or 20 min session, my clutch gets stuck to the bottom and i have to lift it up with my foot. I then pull over into the pits and within a few seconds the clutch is fine, albeit a bit soft feeling. And if you didn't know, mosport ddt is a short, tight twisty low speed track done almost totally in 2nd gear except for the one single straight where you upshift to 3rd for a few seconds before downshifting into 2nd again for the turn. So the clutch can't be working that hard. And yes I had the stock fluid.

And a few days ago I was lapping at shannonville. The clutch didn't get stuck but after the same 20 min session the clutch would get progressively softer, and i got the occasional gear grinding when shifting. My guess is that it seems the clutch fluid boils a bit due to excess heat after about 15 or 20 min of hard lapping. I'll upgrade the clutch fluid over the winter and next year see if the problem replicates itself.

I experienced fuel starvation on shannonville that same day near the end of my 3rd 20 min session. I was running low on gas, about 4 dots (25% of the tank). Then on turn 3 which is a sharp right, the car just died down and i lost all drive to the wheels. the engine was idling at barely 1000 rpm. I was flooring the throttle and the engine wasnt responding. I shuffled through the gears 1 to 4 trying to get the car moving and it didn't. I was able to get it to creep very very slowly in 1st gear. It was pretty scary since i was stationary in the middle of the racing line, and a couple of cars whizzed by my side at 70 km/h or so. Finally I crept enough to get it to the grass and left it idling in neutral for a few seconds. by that time the fuel level was down to 2 dots. After a few seconds i tried to rev it and it responded, so i took off again to finish my lap. On the same lap at turn 10 which is a right hand hairpin before a long straight, right after the turn and getting ready to floor it for the very long back straight, the car died again for a few seconds before responding again. By that time fuel was down to 1 dot. I was able to finish my lap with no problems but pulled into the pits at the end. After leaving the car idling for a few minutes the fuel level crept back up to 4 dots again

I left the track soon after and went back home.

In addition I did experience ice mode regularly after hard braking from long straights, especially since both mosport ddt and shannonville are very bumpy tracks. But that's no problem. As soon as i feel the abs pulsate the brake pedal i lift and then reapply the brakes and that seems to defeat ice mode.

I feel like I could have typed those first two paragraphs

That is exactly what happened to me! I will also be upgrading the fluid over the winter and see how she does this spring!

10-18-2010, 06:00 PM	#16 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	You may very well have a bad CSC. Are you sure you don't accidentally rest your foot on the clutch as you approach a corner? It's easy to prepare for a downshift, rest your foot on the clutch (partially, even just slightly depressing it), brake for the corner, and then finally shift. If the clutch is partially engaged during this time, you could overheat it. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

10-18-2010, 09:52 PM	#22 (permalink)
djpathfinder A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 12,910 Drives: 2012 GT-R BE Rep Power: 733	Since bleeding is mentioned, what's the best way to bleed brake lines and the clutch: 1. empty all old fluid first, then fill with new and bleed, or 2. fill reservoir periodically as the old fluid is bled out? __________________ 2012 GT-R Black Edition Jet Black 2010 370Z 40th Anniversary // SOLD

10-18-2010, 10:47 PM	#23 (permalink)
BGTV8 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: 03350 Australia Posts: 1,514 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z M6 Rep Power: 39973	Is the clutch pressure occuring because you are downshifting too early and carrying too many engine rev's for the road speed as you downshift. Most folks tracking their cars for the first time inevitably can carry one gear higher than they reckon - if you reckon your need 2nd, try using 3rd instead, same for 3rd/4th. IMHO, 2nd gear is only required for a 25mph ultra-tight hairpin - there are no tracks here in Ausrtralia with a 2nd gear corner, apart from some extended gymkhana tracks (Autotest is the nearest US equivalent I think, although Autotest seems to involve higher speeds than I'd expect with a gymkhana, so maybe I am wrong here). The reason a clutch overheats is because it is slipped. This can only occur if the driver is modulating traction via the clutch and the friction plates overheat and lose effectvieness, OR road speed is too high for engine speed and the clutch is acting as a brake and slipping .... or the clutch pressure plate clamping force is exceeded - which can occur if downshifting at too high a road speed for the gear. I regulary run 20-25 minute sessions in my Z34 and have never had a clutch problem. As a rule, downshift is the last thing you do before turn-in .... braking is effectively done, execute the downshift whilst still on the brakes, and turn the car in and get onto the gas in one easy fluid motion as you hot the corner apex - engine speed needs to be such that you do not run out of rev's before most of the steering lock is off the car and you are pointing at the next straight - if you find yourself running out of revs close to the corner exit, then try entering the corner in the next higher gear. The VQ37 engine is torque-rich and can carry a gear at 3500/4000 rpm as well as at 5000 or 5500 rpm. REmember, corner entry technique is brake, downshift into the gear you need to exit the corner right before turning-in and thengetting back onto the gas as you apex ..... on downshift, gigure that you need to be at or slightly above 50% engine speed 3800-4200rpm ideally, never more than 5000rpm especially if you are using 2nd gear !! Of course, you may well have a warranty issue with your clutch, but not especially likely. RB Last edited by BGTV8; 10-18-2010 at 10:49 PM.

10-19-2010, 10:18 AM	#27 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2186	Fortunately, I haven't had any clutch issues at all with over 4000 track miles on the car now. But for those with problems, I would flush the system and replace fluid with Motul or some other high temp brake fluid. Fuel starvation is another issue though. At Road America with Spearfish this weekend, it was fricking ridiculous! Engine stumbling exiting the carousel with only two dots down on fuel, once when I was only one dot down! I couldn't go more than 15 minutes into a session before it started happening. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

10-19-2010, 07:53 PM	#29 (permalink)
Pharmacist A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,249 Drives: 09 370z Sport 6MT Rep Power: 18	too many smarta$$es here Lay off the OP, he's not an idiot. I too get the exact same problem with the clutch. It happened to me 3 times when on mosport ddt during lapping days. Near the end of a 15 or 20 min session, my clutch gets stuck to the bottom and i have to lift it up with my foot. I then pull over into the pits and within a few seconds the clutch is fine, albeit a bit soft feeling. And if you didn't know, mosport ddt is a short, tight twisty low speed track done almost totally in 2nd gear except for the one single straight where you upshift to 3rd for a few seconds before downshifting into 2nd again for the turn. So the clutch can't be working that hard. And yes I had the stock fluid. And a few days ago I was lapping at shannonville. The clutch didn't get stuck but after the same 20 min session the clutch would get progressively softer, and i got the occasional gear grinding when shifting. My guess is that it seems the clutch fluid boils a bit due to excess heat after about 15 or 20 min of hard lapping. I'll upgrade the clutch fluid over the winter and next year see if the problem replicates itself. I experienced fuel starvation on shannonville that same day near the end of my 3rd 20 min session. I was running low on gas, about 4 dots (25% of the tank). Then on turn 3 which is a sharp right, the car just died down and i lost all drive to the wheels. the engine was idling at barely 1000 rpm. I was flooring the throttle and the engine wasnt responding. I shuffled through the gears 1 to 4 trying to get the car moving and it didn't. I was able to get it to creep very very slowly in 1st gear. It was pretty scary since i was stationary in the middle of the racing line, and a couple of cars whizzed by my side at 70 km/h or so. Finally I crept enough to get it to the grass and left it idling in neutral for a few seconds. by that time the fuel level was down to 2 dots. After a few seconds i tried to rev it and it responded, so i took off again to finish my lap. On the same lap at turn 10 which is a right hand hairpin before a long straight, right after the turn and getting ready to floor it for the very long back straight, the car died again for a few seconds before responding again. By that time fuel was down to 1 dot. I was able to finish my lap with no problems but pulled into the pits at the end. After leaving the car idling for a few minutes the fuel level crept back up to 4 dots again I left the track soon after and went back home. In addition I did experience ice mode regularly after hard braking from long straights, especially since both mosport ddt and shannonville are very bumpy tracks. But that's no problem. As soon as i feel the abs pulsate the brake pedal i lift and then reapply the brakes and that seems to defeat ice mode. __________________ 2009 370z Sport Touring/Nismo shift Knob/Z1 motorsports 34 row oil cooler

10-18-2010, 06:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
FL 4Motion A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: FL Posts: 4,776 Drives: Baby Shark Rep Power: 701615	I was expecting to see brake pads and oil cooler as the two top things. Like others have said, replacing the fluid with some good DOT 4 like Motul and bleeding the lines should do the trick. If not, they you probably have a bad CSC.

10-18-2010, 06:36 PM	#18 (permalink)
daisuke149 My *** is famous! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Alpharetta, GA Posts: 4,849 Drives: 2013 Boss 302 PW Rep Power: 31	it happened to zcarman also at the znationals track day. but his came back up after he let it cool. I would def say that changing out the fluid is a MUST for everyone who plans on doin this.

10-18-2010, 09:35 PM	#21 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	It takes 30 minutes to bleed the clutch.

10-19-2010, 04:19 PM	#28 (permalink)
wishihadnav A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 90090 Posts: 1,851 Drives: Force Fed Nismo Rep Power: 184	damn..i hope somebody comes up with a tank baffle or some other solution for this..

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