Fun Track Day, Little Mishap

m4a1mustang · 08-15-2010, 09:43 PM

Lets not derail this thread...

G Fo12ce · 08-15-2010, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Lets not derail this thread...

I'm Done lol.

cossie1600 · 08-15-2010, 10:13 PM

They never won LeMans, only the Mazda did as a Japanese manufacture. They will also be the first one to tell you they only do it for fun, not because it is fast. Plus if you know how to drive, how to control a sliding car should come natural.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G Fo12ce

1. While I understand your point it has nothing to do with my point. The skills learned drifting are good for accident avoidance and when the unexpected happens for the average guy. That's why they teach it a the BMW schools ect. ect.

2. There are examples of the the other side of the coin. There are drifters that have competed at Super GT, Lemans ect. levels:

Mike · 08-15-2010, 10:18 PM

Sam Hubinette. I rest my case.

spearfish25 · 08-15-2010, 10:56 PM

There is certainly value in skid control training. I'll be honest...I was googling around to find some courses in my area after this experience. I know Autobahn CC has a skid car too. That's exactly what I'd like some more time with. It takes muscle memory and training to stay on the throttle rather than lift, react appropriately and quickly, etc etc. AutoX is helpful but just not the same. Going sideways at 70mph is very differnt than 30mph. Skid training certainly can't hurt, unless it builds undeserved confidence.

So, anyone know of a decent school that teaches skid control? All I've seen that offer it are these teen driving programs. I'd be the weird 30 year old with all the teens in the class.

cossie1600 · 08-16-2010, 12:11 AM

Once you have more experience, stuff like that should come natural to you. YouTube - 350Z Shenandoah Corner too hot and too deep pass

YouTube - 350Z Shenandoah Wet Chasing BMW I had full slicks in pouring rain, never went completely sideways and I was keeping up with the slipping and sliding BMW

spearfish25 · 08-16-2010, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

Once you have more experience, stuff like that should come natural to you. YouTube - 350Z Shenandoah Corner too hot and too deep pass

YouTube - 350Z Shenandoah Wet Chasing BMW I had full slicks in pouring rain, never went completely sideways and I was keeping up with the slipping and sliding BMW

Nice vids and driving. I suppose I'd rather garner my experience in a more controlled situation than my original video! Although I guess I'll learn pretty quickly from those types of experiences.

BlueR32 · 08-17-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

I definitely had full right lock. The problem is that I lost traction in the rear. Mashing the accelerator would have worsened the situation. What I ended up doing was full right lock and clutch in...no brake or gas.

in off-camber turns, i think it is really important to not be early, because if you lose traction on entry, you're not going to find it during the turn. it does look like you're a little early in that turn, no doubt because of being pressured.

others will have better advice than me, but i wouldn't do clutch and/or brake in unless you have completely given up on the turn and are off course. in this case, your best bet is ultra-quick right lock, and easing off the gas: not a mash (power oversteer- car rotates like a top), not a lift (weight totally off the rear, and you go around 911-style). if you catch it, return wheel to neutral (quickly) and ease into the throttle.

by putting the clutch in, you 1: have eliminated the possibility of the throttle helping you steer the car, 2: could re-upset the car when re-engaging.

that being said, i think you did better than i would have in this circumstance, and better than 95% of drivers out there! i do one thing better: if i have someone riding my *** obnoxiously, i give them a wave so they know i've seen them, and then forget about them until the next passing zone: they can't pass you in the meantime, so they can just **** off until the straightaway!

Sharif@Forged · 08-17-2010, 05:58 PM

That turn is tricky, as was the previous one. Was traction control off or on? Once you commit, you have to follow through. It's hard to tell, but was there any attempt at correction prior to the full spin?

Either way, you got off easy with the lazy spin to driver's left and into grass. Good work.

spearfish25 · 08-17-2010, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged

That turn is tricky, as was the previous one. Was traction control off or on? Once you commit, you have to follow through. It's hard to tell, but was there any attempt at correction prior to the full spin?

Either way, you got off easy with the lazy spin to driver's left and into grass. Good work.

VDC was off. If it was on, I'm sure the slide would have been tamed very quickly and never would have become a perpendicular experience.

As things started to break loose prior to the apex, I slowly added right lock. However, what felt like a little tail wag quickly escalated and I then put on the right lock as fast as I could. Probably more right lock early would have saved it but I just didn't feel it was going to 'go' that fast (prior to full slide).

On a side note, I really appreciate all the comments and insight. This post-track analysis is equally or more valuable than the actual slide experience!

Sharif@Forged · 08-17-2010, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

VDC was off. If it was on, I'm sure the slide would have been tamed very quickly and never would have become a perpendicular experience.

As things started to break loose prior to the apex, I slowly added right lock. However, what felt like a little tail wag quickly escalated and I then put on the right lock as fast as I could. Probably more right lock early would have saved it but I just didn't feel it was going to 'go' that fast (prior to full slide).

On a side note, I really appreciate all the comments and insight. This post-track analysis is equally or more valuable than the actual slide experience!

Every off road excursion or spin is a great learning experience...a teachable moment.

That's the way I always see it, and I've gone off a couple times myself. Do this long enough and it will happen but hopefully fewer and further between.

One thing to keep in mind with wheel corrections to prevent spins, is that they have to be early, abrupt, and instantaneous which is usually the opposite of how most driving instructors teach their students how to drive. We ask everyone to be smooth, slow, and precise with the wheel, but when it comes to spin prevention there needs to be more aggression and immediacy in the wheel. Another thought to keep in mind, is the wheel needs to come back to straight before the car does, or else you will end up with a tank slapper, over-rotating, and a spin in the opposite direction.

I have some videos from Sebring with the GT3 that would be great to illustrate this, as Sebring is super bumpy, and the GT3's rear end moves around a lot. I will try to get them up shortly.

cossie1600 · 08-17-2010, 07:26 PM

Bring an extra pair of underwear for each track day too, just in case.

spearfish25 · 08-17-2010, 07:34 PM

In for videos, Sharif. Always enjoy the GT3 vids

Sharif@Forged · 08-17-2010, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

In for videos, Sharif. Always enjoy the GT3 vids

GT3 Video from Sebring! And if you aren't quick enough with your hands, you loose a side mirror.

Notice how the hands catch the slides instantly, and are to center as quickly as humanly possible.

spearfish25 · 08-17-2010, 10:41 PM

Can't get the movie to work. Is the link correct?

***Nevermind, iPhone glitch. Great video and nice save near the end!

08-15-2010, 09:43 PM	#31 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Lets not derail this thread... __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

08-15-2010, 10:18 PM	#34 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2186	Sam Hubinette. I rest my case. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

08-15-2010, 10:56 PM	#35 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	There is certainly value in skid control training. I'll be honest...I was googling around to find some courses in my area after this experience. I know Autobahn CC has a skid car too. That's exactly what I'd like some more time with. It takes muscle memory and training to stay on the throttle rather than lift, react appropriately and quickly, etc etc. AutoX is helpful but just not the same. Going sideways at 70mph is very differnt than 30mph. Skid training certainly can't hurt, unless it builds undeserved confidence. So, anyone know of a decent school that teaches skid control? All I've seen that offer it are these teen driving programs. I'd be the weird 30 year old with all the teens in the class. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

08-17-2010, 05:58 PM	#39 (permalink)
Sharif@Forged The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 840 Drives: 2009 GT-R, 2010 370Z Rep Power: 17	That turn is tricky, as was the previous one. Was traction control off or on? Once you commit, you have to follow through. It's hard to tell, but was there any attempt at correction prior to the full spin? Either way, you got off easy with the lazy spin to driver's left and into grass. Good work. __________________ Sharif@Forgedperformance.com General Manager/Certified Tuner/NASA-PCA-BMWCAA Instructor JRZ RS1's Available NOW...PM me Cobb ProTuner, Uprev ECU Flash, FCON Vpro, Haltech, Motec Certified

08-17-2010, 07:34 PM	#43 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	In for videos, Sharif. Always enjoy the GT3 vids __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

08-16-2010, 12:11 AM	#36 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	Once you have more experience, stuff like that should come natural to you. YouTube - 350Z Shenandoah Corner too hot and too deep pass YouTube - 350Z Shenandoah Wet Chasing BMW I had full slicks in pouring rain, never went completely sideways and I was keeping up with the slipping and sliding BMW

08-17-2010, 07:26 PM	#42 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	Bring an extra pair of underwear for each track day too, just in case.

08-17-2010, 10:41 PM	#45 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Can't get the movie to work. Is the link correct? **Nevermind, iPhone glitch. Great video and nice save near the end! __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z Last edited by spearfish25; 08-18-2010 at 07:06 AM.*

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