what's the best way to gain performance driving skill for a beginner?

RCZ

Just to add $0.02 to the conversation.

Simulations:
I do a lot of GTR-2 and GTR Evo and I've found that you can learn a racing line 100% with it. Show up at a track and have a very decent knowledge of the line. I've never been to the nurburgring but I can recite to you, out of memory, how you set up for every corner, braking points and where/when you can get back on the throttle and even gears for certain cars. The same goes for a lot of other tracks too. I downloaded my local track (Homestead) for GTR2 and drove a 350z on it and was within like 3-4 seconds of my real life time on a stock 370.

Lap records on most of the tracks in GTR2 are within a second or two of the real life record for that car on that track, some less than a second. Specially if you look at spec cars such as lemans class and the like. There are a lot of mods out for the game too which can add all sorts of tracks, physics, sounds cars, etc.

You can learn a lot about being smooth and proper braking and throttle inputs for sure. It definitely doesnt hurt to pick up a force feedback steering wheel ($50 on ebay) and a copy of GTR Evo ($20) and go at it. Drive the WTCC class without TC on and tell me that doesn't feel realistic....some of you guys would be surprised how much you can learn from a sim. In fact all pro drivers practice on Sims nowadays before the race. McLaren has a pretty amazing one that uses data from their CFD supercomputer to test out how chassis and aero changes will feel on the road. There's a great video of this somewhere with lewis hamilton testing out aero parts for the F1 car on a big simulator.


Karts:
Like someone said, driving Karts is like cheating. They have huge amount of grip and 0 weight transfer. At the same time, I think there is a lot to be learned about conservation of momentum, smooth inputs, catching a slide, controlling understeer and being able to use all this to make the car do what you need it to. Braking is also fun in karts because no ABS and they are so light that you have to be careful not to lock them. Drive a kart on a wet track, that will tell you how good a driver you are. It can be a humbling experience let me tell you.

There is a place for both of these, but like someone else also mentioned...they are definitely not the same as racing your Z around a track. There is no replacement for seat time and that's really the only way you will ever get fast. With the Sim you dont have G-forces or consequences...there's only so much that can teach you. Karts are more like racing single seaters like F1 cars than your Z.

So...get a sim, get into a racing school. Then AutoX or take an HPDE day at your local track. Be smooth, the speed will come on its own.

>135I

I am not the OP but I have read these postings and find it very informative. I have been to one AutoX event so far but plan on going to a lot more. Eventually I would love to move up into road courses. Thank you guys very much for your inputs.

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JPotter

ABSOLUTELY!!! Don't get me wrong, re-reading my posts makes me sound like Auto-X is the ONLY way to get experience.

IMO it is the cheapest and easiest - but totally agree driving on the track requires a different style/approach than auto-x.

w0ady

i actually skipped auto-x and went straight to hpde. i wont comment on things i havent done but ill say that having an instructor in the car with me was 1 of the best things for my personal improvement. now it can be hit or miss with instructors but thats why the more driving time and different instructors you ride with, the more you will learn. also try to ride with instructors in their cars to learn even more. i think the problem with starting off on your own is then having to unlearn bad habits you might start. then again the same thing may happen with a poor instructor so take everything with a grain of salt.

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RCZ

oh, you must always start with an instructor. Always, for learning and for safety. I don't know of any clubs around here that let you just "go at it" by yourself. I had to drive with instructors several times before getting signed off to drive solo class. Even now, I think I would benefit from different points of view about which lines are faster. I've had instructors show me different approaches to the same corner on the same day.

This is one of those things where you never stop learning.

cossie1600

also as a tip, make sure you learn from the right person. there are a lot of morons out there

speedworks

What I did:

Spent 5 years in autocross - learned a lot about car control, quick reactions, running the car at the edge (but at lower speeds). Benefits of autocross is cheap entry fees, can use your own car, if you spin you don't wreck your car, and they are easily available. I won many regional championships, and attended the national championships a few times. Had a blast. Great starting point, unless you can afford to buy a race car.

After autocross, I went straight to a SCCA driving school, bought a car, and have been racing for 10+ years. Autocross skills definately crossed over to road racing, but the speeds are higher, and there isn't a constant 'being on the edge' feeling (more straights to check gauges and figure out when to brake). What autocross didn't deal with was running in traffic. My advice, is then seat time, seat time, and more seat time. I have done Sims / video games, but they didn't do much except learn some lines. But, you don't get the car feedback and seats of the pants feeling. I think your path depends on what your ultimate goal is. If you want to race wheel to wheel, and can afford a race car, I would go straight to a SCCA school and start getting seat time. If money is an issue, I would start with autocross. If you don't want to race wheel to wheel, and you have money, go straight to HPDEs - no money, start with autox. I wouldn't worry too much about your driver's instructor, as track time, and following the fast guys is where you will learn the most.

Whatever you do, think about the financial impact, and have fun and be safe.

Sharif@Forged

Learning how to drive fast on a racetrack has a very simple path of entry. Hook up with a local NASA, SSCA, or other high performance driver education group. You can find them on Motorsportreg.com or TrackSchedule.com - Coco's Drivers Ed Calendar for 2010. No real need to upgrade the car initially, as it will speak to you when it needs something.

With enough training, practice, and seat-time, you can extract 99% out of a given machine.

Good instruction is critical, just like entering any new hobby or sport.

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StackTrack

It's the easy answer, but not necessarily the complete answer. As was hinted at above, the seat time needs to be QUALITY seat time + in-car instruction + quality in-class instruction (which you almost never get with Autocross, and is a crap shoot with most HPDE's.)

I disagree... MOST karts that people will drive are low on power, but even worse, low on torque. And that's PERFECT for figuring out how smoothness and the correct line through a turn (or complex of turns) affects momentum and performance... and you figure this out easily and directly, even without instruction.

IMO... iRacing is the only sim that should be used to work on driving techniques and/or to learn a track. They (to my knowledge) are the only sim who laser scans each track in the sim for the absolute most accurate representation. The do the same for the cars in the sim (although I have learned that they might base a new vehicle physics & adjustments model on a similar existing vehicle in the sim.) They are constantly updating and improving the physics of the vehicles, again, for the most accurate representation of real driving.

That said, the two most important things you will never be able to re-produce in a sim, is the g-force (seat of the pants) feel, and the sense of speed. In a real car, windows down, corner coming up... your brain starts using inputs your body gives you (kinesthetic) as opposed to JUST visual input (all you have in sim.)

There's one more thing that hasn't been mentioned (but I hinted at it above)... if at all possible... start your HP driving "career" in a low-power, balanced vehicle.

I know that's not a popular suggestion, but you'll be a better driver for it in the long run.

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travisjb

your last point is a darn good one... i started in a boxster and it was a fantastic training ground... total momentum car, supremely balanced, comfortable at the limits... our Z's have more power and are a little more tail happy but if you ease your way in, they can be perfectly safe at the track and good to learn on

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Pharmacist

I'm not really planning a career switch to racing or going wheel to wheel, nor do I have the budget for it. But I do want to have fun and do something more enjoyable than 90 degree turns at traffic lights. I'm not much interested in the competitive aspect but the recreational aspects, to have fun driving quickly in a safe environment. So basically just autocross and hpde/open lapping events.

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w0ady

yup auto-x is a nice low cost starting point but like i said, i jumped straight into hpde and havent looked back. the higher speeds and instruction are my 2 fav parts about it.

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NismoZ_840

Let's not forget old fashion treeware - books! Ross Bentley's "Speed Secrets" series is great. The Skip Barber "Going Faster" is quite good too and fills in some gaps or expands on the Speed Series. These will help, along with occasional in car instructors/veterans, to make sure your seat time is quality seat time. Another great teacher is an in car lap timer, ideally predictive lap times, and data logging. You get instant feedback on how you're doing (via the lap timer) and can do post-track analysis to figure out lap to lap how it compares and how to put together a fast lap.

cossie1600

Yeah, passing a bunch of cars on the track doesn't make you a fast driver all the time, they could just be slow drivers or you have a fast car

w0ady

+1 for books. i have "going faster" by barber, "driving in competition" by johnson and "secrets of solo racing" by watts. i picked them up a couple years ago when i first got the idea to start tracking and flip through them occasionally. im kind of ocd in that the more info i get, the better. then i can put it all together and sort out what works for me when it comes to the track. which is also why ive rode in 10+ different types of cars with my instructors just to see the different lines and techniques that they use.

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