Bosch M5 Clubsport ABS kit

prandelia

Decided to start another thread for this question.

My question is, the Bosch M5 Clubsport ABS kit, is also available for our cars. Can that be installed and still keep use of all other OE functions? That setup, while still expensive, would be worth it IMO if you can still retain the other OE functions (speedo, etc.). The Bosch M5 Clubsport is like 7K. Yes, it's crazy expensive, but alot less expensive than putting my Nismo into a wall. I've reached out to some vendors, but still waiting for an answer.

I know Austin Hertel, he races in the same series as I do (with another car), but I built a "clubsport" Nismo that's a hardcore track car. The MK60 isn't an option for me because it deletes all other electronic functions like speedo/tach/etc. etc. The only way to do MK60 and keep the other OE stuff is to install an additional 4 wheel speed sensors and run BOTH ABS setups, which is ridiculous, and not really feasible for a street car.

I had my car lockup, yes, lockup the front wheels going into a corner where you have a slight bit of wheel in the car. It doesn't like that at all. Instead of giving me ABS pules, or Ice Mode, which it's done in that same corner before, this time, it just went to straight lockup, and torched my right front tire. That is some crazy stuff. I own all kinds of track cars, and this is by far the worst ABS I've ever driven on. I have the right size tires F/R, have the right stagger in rear pads, all the best brake cooling. Years and years of driving and racing, so I know how to brake. What this means is that if you aren't perfect, which nobody is from time to time, then this will bite you, bad. That's just not an acceptable outcome, because if it happened at another track, I'd have been in a wall.

SeeThruHead

i wonder if you could put a translation layer between the MK60 that listen to its can messages, and outputs nissan can messages that emulate the original abs can messages.
An arduino that can read the mk60 can messages and then write nissan can messages (whatever the messages were the old abs was writing)
Then you wouldn't need to maintain the oem abs unit.

__________________
My Build thread STH Build Plan Thread
Images too big fix here

Elmo370z

You can run the mk60 and still keep the speedo/tach and rev match.

SeeThruHead

2017 Nissan 370Z Nismo Trackday / Clubsport / GT

isn't that only if you keep the abs module and speed sensors connected?

__________________
My Build thread STH Build Plan Thread
Images too big fix here

prandelia

PLEASE let me know how this is possible without running another 4 additional wheel speed sensors?

Elmo370z

Just the rear needs four more I believe. 2017 Nissan 370Z Nismo Trackday / Clubsport / GT

prandelia

No, each corner uses a wheel speed sensor for ABS. This is the problem with the MK60 for a street car, it requires an insane amount of fab work that requires taking the hubs off the car and custom machining new holes to fit new wheel speed sensors. I'm just not going to do that, looking for another way.

Bosch is the OE ABS, so if the Bosch motosport unit can be used, I'll go that route, as the cost of the unit will certainly offset the labor costs of the MK60 method.

__________________
2018-991.2 GT3-6spd / 2016-981 GT4
2013-E92 M3 / 2014-Nismo 370Z
2015-FRS-GLTC race car

MotorvateDIY

The factory ABS module sends out these messages on the CAN bus:
• Individual wheel speed
• ABS active signal
• ABS warning light status
• Brake warning light (low fluid)
• VDC off light
• VDC warning light
• brake line pressure (~1500 psi at a full ABS stop!!)
• side (lateral) g acceleration
• engine torque reduction signal (for VDC)
• TCS hold gear request

Some of these signals have counters and checksum that can be difficult to calculate correctly. If the data payload doesn't have the proper format, it is not accepted by the other modules.

I think there is an easier solution:
Why not tap into the existing wheel speed sensors and have them connected to the factory ABS module AND the MK60?

• The factory ABS module only needs electrical connections.
All hydraulic connections can be removed.
This will keep the speedo and syncro rev match functions working.

• Then set up the MK60 as a stand alone ABS and connect to the car's brake lines.

This will give you better ABS BUT you won't have any traction control or stability control... which shouldn't be a problem for a track/race car.

The sharing of the wheel speed sensors may require some signal conditioning as the load is sees (current) is a little greater. If required, using a MOSFET would easily handle this task as they are a voltage switching device unlike a transistor which is a current switching device.

I will be doing my front brakes in the next few weeks and will scope my wheel speed sensors to see if the signal is a 12v / 0v pulse (hall sensor), or if the pulse is 0.5v on top of a ~11 volt signal. (magnetoresistive sensor)

Fun fact:
@ 160 MPH the wheel RPM is about 2,000 RPM (for 84.3" circumference) and that is 33.33 revs/second (2000/60). With 48 teeth on the hub tone ring, that equals a frequency of ~1600 Hz or 1600 pulses per second. This is what the ABS module processes.

street2soul

MK60 will disable speedo, but not the tachometer.

I could be wrong, but I doubt the Bosch unit will let you keep the OE functions unless you run the OE ABS together to keep original speed sensors communicating to the OE ABS module and the CAN communications from OE ABS to the ECU

MotorvateDIY

Not if you run the wheel speed sensors to both modules... the MK60 module as a standalone and keep the "electronics" part of the factory ABS module connected.

The Better Option
The other option is for me to build a CAN bus gateway that receives/converts the MK60 wheel speed (CAN bus ID 0x1F0) and send it to the speedometer CAN ID.

Then you just remove the factory ABS module, add the MK60 and my module and you will have MK60 ABS, with speedometer. The ECU sends the engine RPM to the cluster via CAN bus, so that always works.

With the above you won't have stability control or traction control.

The same module could be reprogrammed for the Bosch ABS unit. It sends wheel speed using CAN ID 0x24A and it would be received and converted from m/s to MPH, then sent to the factory cluster for an operational speedometer.

The 370, G37, and GTR (and most Nissan/Infinities from this era) use the same CAN bus architecture. This means all speedo messages or wheel speed or brake line pressure are encoded the same way.

Below is a short video showing some of the results of my CAN bus research.
The exact same code will also work on a 370, or GTR and most other Nissan/Infiniti's of that era.

Controlling the G37 gauges using CAN Bus! Motorvate's DIY Garage Ep.37
https://youtu.be/lWDMs2Ql58g

prandelia

That would indeed be the best option. Because with the MK60/Continental setup, we can use our stock wheel speed sensors, and the cost is less than half that of the Bosch unit. I would be happy to purchase your module. PM sent to discuss further.

__________________
2018-991.2 GT3-6spd / 2016-981 GT4
2013-E92 M3 / 2014-Nismo 370Z
2015-FRS-GLTC race car

prandelia

That's fine, I already run without them at all times anyway. I'll be using the MK60-based Continental Motorsport ABS solutions - these systems use units from the MK60, MK60E1, and MK60E5 families of ABS modules. This should still be using the same CAN bus ID 0x1F0 as a standard MK60. Regardless, count me in for one of your modules, this is perfect.

__________________
2018-991.2 GT3-6spd / 2016-981 GT4
2013-E92 M3 / 2014-Nismo 370Z
2015-FRS-GLTC race car

MotorvateDIY

Update:
Sorry to say, but at this time, we don't have the resources to develop a MK60 to 370z speedometer module, as our G37 mini-dash / LCD gauges are about to start production.

This will be revisited once the G37 gauges are launched.

prandelia

Keep me posted. If people knew this was an option, I think the market would grow quickly!

__________________
2018-991.2 GT3-6spd / 2016-981 GT4
2013-E92 M3 / 2014-Nismo 370Z
2015-FRS-GLTC race car

///maestro

Why not just go with a custom dash like Austin? I believe he’s running an aim dash/data logger with the mk60

__________________