Fortune Auto 510
 

Hey Guys
switching over from kwv3's to fa's and i want to know what is the most aggressive spring rate combo I can go with for the most agile/nimble handling?

the car is mostly for the track and even on the street i dont mind the stiff ride, so please let me know the most aggressive I can go

also the only aero im running is an evo-r high wing if thats even considered aero and no front lip yet but i will be soon

car weighs 3,250 pounds wet no driver, and even if i gut the rear I will add a 4 point so the weight distribution will stay the same

thanks in advance

Hotrodz runs the Fortune's. He'd be a good guy to talk to

Lot of good info in this thread. May make your head spin.

http://www.the370z.com/track-autocro...coilovers.html

Feels like a conversation we’ve has before

Sweet will do thanks brother

This was a great help, still not sure if I want to go true type or stay divorced. If I were to stay divorced, do you know where I could read up on that

doesn't that thread already tell you everything you need to know?

The main, practical difference is the calculation in spring rates.

If there's some theoretical advance in the geometry, you'll never feel it. Only the highest levels of TIME ATTACK!!!! CHARRRGE! folks would know

Additionally, and this should be obvious, but . .

True type vs divorced type requires different hardware. The "true" type will ditch the mid-link bucket because there is no spring to seat there, so you replace it with a toe link.

As your current KW V3's are divorced type, i assume you already have the SPL mid-links. Instead of swapping them out, getting divorced type will let you keep them

As always make sure you get the correct spring ID to fit the SPL buckets, which i believe is 65MM


LASTLY

If you're going to be pulling your coilovers and ordering from Fortune Auto, I would stroooooooooooongly recommend grabbing the cup kit with it. They'll send it to you pre-installed, at least for the fronts. My biggest regret is not getting that Aragosta setup all together at once

Great stuff here and the thread I started on aero and suspension balancing. I would say if you are going to stay divorced and you don't have mid links get them and keep your KW 3s. You may need to get stiffer springs. That said standard fair on divorce type 12k rear 14k front. If you go true type your rear should be close to OEM spring rate 7 to 9k so your wheel rate is not out of wack. Front can stay 12 to 14k.

OZ is right if you want to do more than shoot from the hip find a shop that specializes in track cars. They may be willing to give you some solid numbers. The guys at Professional Awesome Racing helped me out a bunch and did not charge me for their advice like they would do normally. I bought several hundred dollars of their stuff for helping me out. I would call Will at WRteknica and see what he has to say. He is a Nissan guy and knows our platform well. For a track car he will recommend true type.

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he's in Socal, it seems like there would be no shortage of places that will help you set up your car if you give them money

Art of Attack, Dogfight Garge and you still can't go wrong with Westend Auto. Go see Amir, RS Future he is a KW fan! Like you said no shortage of shops to choose from and all of them are in to time attack in a major way!

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Thank you so much for thr DM as well, the race shop that basically did everything to the car is JMP. issue is theyre mostly e46 guys and told me I can go up tp even 20k up front and then accordingly in the rear. wondering if thats too much

v3's are just too soft for me

thank you for that, and i will for sure grab the cup kit too. Itll for sure come in handy especially as were running it so low

The main reason im still iffy about true type is only because the other changes that need to be made like you said. and im wondering if it is even worth it at the driving skill i am at right now

So you have a car that is more suited for track and you are going to spend money on something that is not horrible but there is better. True type coilovers are the way to go. The setup is no more difficult than doing mid links and is less expensive. You should get to know some of the folks that participate in the Nissan Challenge as there is a ton of knowledge there. Malko or eagle here on the forum is someone you should talk to. DM him about his setup. He is one of the fastest guys in his class and overall. He runs Powertrix coilovers and they are true type. They are a very good product for the money. If you are over running your KWs then you are good enough for a true type coil. I am a suspension junkie and it is worth doing it right. You have a ton of experts close to you. Find one a follow their lead. Another good shop is Rockstar, they are a Feal dealer and very good with Japanese cars.

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Another option would be the guys at MotoIQ. They're in Gardena.

https://motoiq.com/motoiq-garage/#:~...C%20California.

So many top choices!

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MotoIQ will do the suspension install but they send the car to Westend (Darin) for alignment. I'd like to go by and check out their shop and talk to them and see what they're all about

Stiff does not mean a good handling car. A compliant car that gives confidence is the best setup. Sounds like you need to do some more research. Get some help like was suggested.

If they told you 20K for the front. Run away from them. That is around what you would use for a 4,000+ lb car.

I am 100% you misheard them or misunderstood when they said “20k”. That’s insane.

Running 18k up front and may go up to 20k but I am an autocross sea urchin.:eekdance:

The nice thing about Fortunes is they have a crazy range of rate they can take before needing to be re-valved. Plus or minus 8k or so. If you get them be sure to pick up some bump stops and helper springs. Helper springs will really help with allowing the car to drive nicely on the street with higher main spring rates as they allow you to keep a good amount of droop. Bump stops will allow you go low without the risk of slapping chassis or having the tire rub the fender/bumper bracket.

Springs are easy to change. Get a good starting point and then learn what you like or dislike and make appropriate changes based on how the tires heat up and wear and how the car is driving.

As for divorced (oem type) vs true, I don't think it matters too much. I run divorced style cause of the da rules. Going true type changes the motion ratio so it will require you to run much softer springs in the rear.

I would start at 16k front and then depending on the rear coilover type you go with 14k for oem/divorced rear and maybe 5k rear if you true style. that will put you on the lower side of 2 hertz front and rear (2.2fr/2.1rr give or take a .02 or so depending on how heavy your wheels and brakes etc are)

Cheers, and remember, don't stress too much on getting it "right". Chances are wherever you start will be wrong. Spend more time learning how to understand what changes will do to affect how the car handles. :yum:

no thats what e46 guys run, even up to 22k up front but spl guys explained to me that they can run that on e46's but not on the 370

darren and chris installed the kw's and even set the car up for my driving style. but ive gotten 10 alignments since then and im trying to figure it out myself, which is mistake #1

thank you for the help, i will stay divorced and take your advice on the spring rates

thanks again for everything

i genuinely think my driving skill is not advanced enough to feel the difference in true type to divorced type, i was even thinking of getting some BC series ER, getting them custom 14k front 12k rear, or even 16k front 14k rear. the problem is I jumped the gun before and got V3's because i thought they were the best on the market. They were amazing but I dont know suspension mechanics well enough to have 3-way adjustable coilovers; and would rather have something simpler, if that makes sense.

i think im going to do exactly that, (OEM 16k/14k) probably

btw your z looks insane with those 305's in the front. are they ze 40's?

what do you think about BC series ER?

I am still running one way adjustable coil overs and I don't think 3 ways are practical as two ways will get the job done if you have the bones to buy them. Every shop that has been listed for you can help you with setup regardless of 1, 2 or 3 way. Pictures of cars with their tires in the air are cool, but a planted car is faster. Regardless of your skill set the more planted or stable the car is the more confidence you will have.

Also, quit selling yourself short. Your times continue to fall every time you go to the track. There are others that have more seat time than you and you are faster than them. I get it. I always compare myself to the fastest guys in my class, whp range and I think I am slow. The reality is I have fewer cars in front of me than behind me now and the fckers in S2Ks and Lotus run buy cars with two and three times the power if they got skills and if you see a Miata in your rear view mirror, just salute them and move aside. I pretend they don't exist and don't count lol.

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thanks bud i really appreciate it. BTW i ran a 2:07 at button before i blew the clutch

crazy how some cars blow by you, but youre right. I called chris from west end, he said go with the fortunes. so much to cough up. blech

Your times are getting closer and closer to the fast bois! You well pushing that 2:00 mark pretty soon!

Glad you maid the call. West End has been handling track cars for a long, long time.

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315* ;)

Bc, fortune, feal etc I don't think it matters too much. As long as what you get is serviceable (preferably in the USA) and allows you to change spring rate, it's fine. The only reason I went with fortune was because of the wide range of spring tolerance. I'm sure there are pros to the other brands but that's why I chose mine.

Thank you sir!! My goal is sub 2 eventually with this same exact set up. I have to give it to my instructor, I’ve done every single track day with him and I can honestly say each day with him is what I would learn by myself in a year. I know i can knock off a couple seconds by turning on synchrorev but my stubbornness won’t let me and I need to go sub 2 heel toe-info.

Chris and Darren are awesome, Darren took a whole Friday and set up and installed my v3’s and spl bits. They’re the best

Thanks again

Yeesh that’s beefy

I’ll be calling bc tomorrow and fortune auto

Gonna weigh out some options, liking the er series and 510’s are also looking good

I think I’m going to go with the 16/14 combo but my mind changes back and forth. Main concern is I don’t want to induce understeer, and have a hotchkis up front

Inducing too much understeer isn't too easy to do. I run 1000lb/800lb (not exactly 18k/14k but close), and I have Hotchkis front and rear. I run my rear bar on the softest setting and the rear shocks cranked pretty far down (autocross setup). Even then there is plenty of room for oversteer left.

FWIW, I had Fortune Auto 510s on my last Z, and was quite satisfied for the price. The current owner just sent the dampers in for their first service, 5 years in, at a cost of $300.
On that car I ran only about 60% of the spring rates that I do now, but FA should be able to set it up however you like.

ah gotcha, thank you for that info. I misunderstood that going too stiff in the front can cause understeer.

still in between bc's and fortune autos

alrighty boys

ordered the fortune auto's. 510 16k front/14k rear hyperco springs, aluminum dampers and heim joint upgrade. now i wait !!

hit up cygnus auto if you need anything, geoff is great

Technically speaking, too stiff in the front relative to the rear does induce undertsteer. My point is just that these cars rotate pretty happily, so that shouldn't be a major concern when deciding between differences in springrates, as long as you're in a reasonable range. 16k/18k fronts would need a really really low rear number to be problematic in that sense beyond what you can just fix with shock adjustments, and you can always change spring rates later.

gotcha, good to know!

should i be worried that the aluminum dampers wouldnt be as durable as the steel ones? i understand our cars are double wish bone so there isnt that much stress on the shock anyways, is that correct?

The coilovers are not load bearing per say. Just have the springs on them. Just make sure the double nuts on the bottom of the springs are tight.

I won’t be installing, I’ll have the shop install them. Making sure the double nuts on the bottom are tight don’t have anything to do with the dampers being aluminum right?

Well the tubes are threaded for the spring adjustment. If the lock nut is tight. You don't have anything to worry about. You will have more than enough threads for contact for the load.