370Z Track Build Potential? - Compete with 911 GT3

FL 4Motion · 10-13-2019, 09:10 AM

As far as benchmarking the gt3, imo, the only choice for lsd is the os giken. And all clutch based lsds should run a diff cooler if pushed hard.

As far as helical gear lsds go, I still stand by it not being necessary to run a diff cooler, just change the fluid regularly and you’ll be gtg.

I’m a big believer in keeping stuff as low maintenance and simple as possible wherever possible, less stuff to break and ruin your day.

I will add one caveat to the above however, regarding the wavetrac, since it has carbon fiber plates in it and is a little bit of a hybrid type diff, a cooler might be helpful there, but for a traditional gear lsd like a torsen or quaife, I still say not necessary.

Spooler · 10-13-2019, 07:32 PM

Wavetrac's do wear out. Heard one clunking on a YouTube video, guy said it was done. LOL

OptionZero · 10-13-2019, 10:18 PM

Didn't rusty's setup add something like $1000+ to the cost of the diff?(assuming not everyone can win a diff cooler at Z days)

Rusty · 10-13-2019, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Didn't rusty's setup add something like $1000+ to the cost of the diff?(assuming not everyone can win a diff cooler at Z days)

If I had to pay for it. It's grand.

FL 4Motion · 10-14-2019, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

Wavetrac's do wear out. Heard one clunking on a YouTube video, guy said it was done. LOL

Ha, I’ve always suspected the marketing/hype was a bit too good to be true. If wavetracs wear out, then imo, that completely defeats the point of getting one, the big selling point to a gear type diff like a torsen is that it’ll outlast the car and require zero maintenance or rebuilds.

If you have to occasionally rebuild the wavetrac, better off just stepping up to a better performing clutch type diff like the osg from the get go.

Spec Jay · 10-14-2019, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loufitness

Thanks to all for level-setting my expectations. I will set my sights on what is truly achievable.

Overall Objective: run in the advanced group with confidence...and run close to the middle of the pack....so I am not constantly being passed.

I really want to stick with the Z for the foreseeable future. I am not a fan of Corvettes or Camaro's.

Progress thus far:
- SS Brakelines; RB600 Fluid, Carbotech XP10/XP8, Still Brake Ducts
- 25Row Setrab Oil Cooler; Redline PS Fluid; Redline Diff Oil; Red Line MT-85 Trans Oil
- Motordyne Shockwave Exhaust; ...just drop in air filters
- SPL Upper Control Arms with -2.75 Camber, near 0 toe
- Hotchkis Sport Suspension Sway Bars
- Enkei PF07 Race Series Wheels(Square); 200 TW Tires (RE11, SUR4G, and Hankook RS4 next)
- EcuTek RaceROM
- Schroth 4-pt (ASM) Harness; Simpson Hybrid Head and Neck device

Seat time = 24 Track Days; accomplishing ~6 per year

Next Mods planned:
- Ohlin DFV Custom Coil-overs (Ordered from Germany)
- Race Seats and Roll-bar
- Continued Track time...and getting instruction as often as I can.
- ...reading your comments and builds for what follows

Again, thanks for your candid feedback, experience suggestions, and encourage the dialog to continue on this thread for all to benefit.

My OS Giken LSD was good for at least 3 seconds for me.
+ some aero and your planned mods should put ya within striking distance with r compounds. Going to be hard to keep up with them on power. I'd think if you did every bolt on possible you could be with a 996 or 997.

03threefiftyz · 10-14-2019, 11:26 AM

Are we talking about a GT3 street car as it rolls out of the factory (street tires, etc)? Honestly, I would be surprised if it turned a faster lap time on just about any track than my TT3 car on Hoosiers. A pro driver on some of the highest speed tracks might be able to put up a time I can't match....but I'm not sure (maybe something like Road America). I think I was about 2-3 seconds faster Summit than a 991.2 with Mike Skeen driving a few years ago, but I could be wrong.

BGTV8 · 10-14-2019, 04:07 PM

In the Carrera Cup series down under, 991.2 GT3's are running 1m34s at PI GP Circuit. These are slightly de-tuned from Stephane Ratel Series GT3's (which is the GT3 RS).

In a race event at the same circuit a few weeks ago, a road spec GT3, lightened and with a cage and 5 year old Pirelli slicks driven by a 62 year old amateur driver ran a 1m42s lap.

Which are you comparing to ?

At best, even the most highly modified Z34 with a 500+hp engine is not going to compete against a GT3RS (or a proper SRO GT3) without a shed-load of enhancements (1100kg weight, flat floor, splitter, wing etc)

Elmo370z · 10-14-2019, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTV8

In the Carrera Cup series down under, 991.2 GT3's are running 1m34s at PI GP Circuit. These are slightly de-tuned from Stephane Ratel Series GT3's (which is the GT3 RS).

In a race event at the same circuit a few weeks ago, a road spec GT3, lightened and with a cage and 5 year old Pirelli slicks driven by a 62 year old amateur driver ran a 1m42s lap.

Which are you comparing to ?

At best, even the most highly modified Z34 with a 500+hp engine is not going to compete against a GT3RS (or a proper SRO GT3) without a shed-load of enhancements (1100kg weight, flat floor, splitter, wing etc)

Pardon me. Updates

loufitness · 10-14-2019, 06:55 PM

BGTV8....I was initially looking to compare to a stock 991.2 (2015) GT3. I will be content to compete with the 996 or 997 to be honest. Again, I just want to be able to run confidently in the Advance Group and not be passed non-stop.

Appears that an a Diff Upgrade is very high on everyone's list to gain lap times. Will definitely begin researching this as my next major mod following my planned Ohlin Coil-overs this winter.

Spec-Jay...A 3 sec gain from Diff sounds like a pretty big move. Is there anything special to your setup that enabled that type of gain...or do you think I could experience similar results on a track that I currently run 2:29.xx?

03threefiftyz · 10-14-2019, 07:38 PM

Biggest upgrade in time is, and will always be, a big sticky tire. Aero, Diff and motorsports grade ABS round out the top 4. I run anywhere from a 275 to 315 Hoosier A on 11's. The diff is a custom set-up OSG. You can build a 370 or 350 to outrun a 991.2 (as it sits on the showroom floor) for a single lap for less than 50-60k including the price of the car. It will be fragile and a car that is not going to be ok to drive on the street, however.

cv129 · 10-14-2019, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03threefiftyz

You can build a 370 or 350 to outrun a 991.2 (as it sits on the showroom floor) for a single lap for less than 50-60k including the price of the car. It will be fragile and a car that is not going to be ok to drive on the street, however.

03threefiftyz · 10-14-2019, 07:57 PM

Actually you could just buy mine for a whole lot less than 50k and spend the difference on track days until you go fast enough haha...

Brendan · 10-14-2019, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loufitness

Spec-Jay...A 3 sec gain from Diff sounds like a pretty big move. Is there anything special to your setup that enabled that type of gain...or do you think I could experience similar results on a track that I currently run 2:29.xx?

I don't mean to answer for jay but the biggest reason for time to fall off will be that with a true lsd, you can get on the throttle much sooner than with the factory vlsd. The car will also make better use of the power it is already making as it wont be spent spinning the unloaded wheel through the corner and on exit.

The factory vlsd is fine as on the street and I guess it's better than nothing, but as your grip and skill improve, it will let you down.

Rusty · 10-14-2019, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan

I don't mean to answer for jay but the biggest reason for time to fall off will be that with a true lsd, you can get on the throttle much sooner than with the factory vlsd. The car will also make better use of the power it is already making as it wont be spent spinning the unloaded wheel through the corner and on exit.

The factory vlsd is fine as on the street and I guess it's better than nothing, but as your grip and skill improve, it will let you down.

Yeah, you come out of the corner quicker, and get to the next corner quicker.

10-13-2019, 09:10 AM	#31 (permalink)
FL 4Motion A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: FL Posts: 4,776 Drives: Baby Shark Rep Power: 701615	As far as benchmarking the gt3, imo, the only choice for lsd is the os giken. And all clutch based lsds should run a diff cooler if pushed hard. As far as helical gear lsds go, I still stand by it not being necessary to run a diff cooler, just change the fluid regularly and you’ll be gtg. I’m a big believer in keeping stuff as low maintenance and simple as possible wherever possible, less stuff to break and ruin your day. I will add one caveat to the above however, regarding the wavetrac, since it has carbon fiber plates in it and is a little bit of a hybrid type diff, a cooler might be helpful there, but for a traditional gear lsd like a torsen or quaife, I still say not necessary. Rusty and Spooler like this.

10-13-2019, 10:18 PM	#33 (permalink)
OptionZero A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sacramento Posts: 3,229 Drives: 15 370Z Nismo 6MT Rep Power: 214100	Didn't rusty's setup add something like $1000+ to the cost of the diff?(assuming not everyone can win a diff cooler at Z days) Rusty and Spooler like this. __________________ OptionZero Build Thread

10-14-2019, 11:26 AM	#37 (permalink)
03threefiftyz Track Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: MD Posts: 536 Drives: 03 350z 6mt Rep Power: 16	Are we talking about a GT3 street car as it rolls out of the factory (street tires, etc)? Honestly, I would be surprised if it turned a faster lap time on just about any track than my TT3 car on Hoosiers. A pro driver on some of the highest speed tracks might be able to put up a time I can't match....but I'm not sure (maybe something like Road America). I think I was about 2-3 seconds faster Summit than a 991.2 with Mike Skeen driving a few years ago, but I could be wrong. AlWakRa, Rusty, Hotrodz and 2 others like this.

10-14-2019, 04:07 PM	#38 (permalink)
BGTV8 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: 03350 Australia Posts: 1,514 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z M6 Rep Power: 39973	In the Carrera Cup series down under, 991.2 GT3's are running 1m34s at PI GP Circuit. These are slightly de-tuned from Stephane Ratel Series GT3's (which is the GT3 RS). In a race event at the same circuit a few weeks ago, a road spec GT3, lightened and with a cage and 5 year old Pirelli slicks driven by a 62 year old amateur driver ran a 1m42s lap. Which are you comparing to ? At best, even the most highly modified Z34 with a 500+hp engine is not going to compete against a GT3RS (or a proper SRO GT3) without a shed-load of enhancements (1100kg weight, flat floor, splitter, wing etc) FL 4Motion, Rusty, Hotrodz and 2 others like this.

10-14-2019, 06:55 PM	#40 (permalink)
loufitness Base Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisville, Ky Posts: 74 Drives: 14 370Z Pearl White Rep Power: 3366	BGTV8....I was initially looking to compare to a stock 991.2 (2015) GT3. I will be content to compete with the 996 or 997 to be honest. Again, I just want to be able to run confidently in the Advance Group and not be passed non-stop. Appears that an a Diff Upgrade is very high on everyone's list to gain lap times. Will definitely begin researching this as my next major mod following my planned Ohlin Coil-overs this winter. Spec-Jay...A 3 sec gain from Diff sounds like a pretty big move. Is there anything special to your setup that enabled that type of gain...or do you think I could experience similar results on a track that I currently run 2:29.xx? __________________ 2014 Pearl White Sport Pkg / Motordyne Shockwave / 25 Row Setrab / SS Brake lines / Motul RBF 600 / Hawk DTC-60 / SPL Upper Control Arms / Enkei RP07 / Hankook RS4 275/40/18 Square / Schroth Harness / EVO-R Carbon Fiber Accents / Bilstein B16 PSS 10

10-13-2019, 07:32 PM	#32 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 13,803 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684392	Wavetrac's do wear out. Heard one clunking on a YouTube video, guy said it was done. LOL

10-14-2019, 07:38 PM	#41 (permalink)
03threefiftyz Track Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: MD Posts: 536 Drives: 03 350z 6mt Rep Power: 16	Biggest upgrade in time is, and will always be, a big sticky tire. Aero, Diff and motorsports grade ABS round out the top 4. I run anywhere from a 275 to 315 Hoosier A on 11's. The diff is a custom set-up OSG. You can build a 370 or 350 to outrun a 991.2 (as it sits on the showroom floor) for a single lap for less than 50-60k including the price of the car. It will be fragile and a car that is not going to be ok to drive on the street, however. BGTV8, AlWakRa, cv129 and 2 others like this.

10-14-2019, 07:57 PM	#43 (permalink)
03threefiftyz Track Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: MD Posts: 536 Drives: 03 350z 6mt Rep Power: 16	Actually you could just buy mine for a whole lot less than 50k and spend the difference on track days until you go fast enough haha... BGTV8, Rusty, Hotrodz and 1 others like this.

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