Track Day Chat

justin_boy · 07-22-2020, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

We have a great time driving, competing, talking shop, exchanging knowledge, tips, we offer ride alongs and offer instruction as well.

So I have some good news for you and your friend. Nissan Challenge is held on open track days, so we are intermingled with drivers who are not necessarily competing in a timed time-attack event if that makes sense. He's more than welcome to join in on the fun and be included in Subie Challenge which typically runs on the same days as us.

You and him can still most likely run in the same session if your experience levels are on the same level (Beginner, intermediate, Advanced...etc) and compare lap times amongst yourselves, but your lap times and points will count to your respective series...yours will count for Nissan Challenge and his for Subie Challenge.

Also regarding the sway bars, highly recommend you only replace the front sway bar, many have reported that changing the rear bar and leaving at it's softest setting causes the car to have a sudden snap oversteer characteristic. Hotchkis pretty much makes the best bar on the market for our cars. Changing out the front bar shouldn't take more than a couple hours although at times it's tough loosening the nuts on the end links, so you might need a breaker bar and some good wrenches

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!! so much info

I will for sure look into that event, also thanks for the advice on sway bars. I was about to buy front and rear but what you told me convinced me to stay with only front. Also everyone is sold out and backordered for the time being

Hotrodz · 07-22-2020, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin_boy

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!! so much info

I will for sure look into that event, also thanks for the advice on sway bars. I was about to buy front and rear but what you told me convinced me to stay with only front. Also everyone is sold out and backordered for the time being

Keep your eyes and ears open for a used one. You will also want to get SPL front end links as well if you don't have them already.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

justin_boy · 07-23-2020, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

Keep your eyes and ears open for a used one. You will also want to get SPL front end links as well if you don't have them already.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

is it a good idea to use a 35mm up front and keep the rear stock? I will def be getting the endlinks. do i also need bushings while im at it?

Eagle · 07-23-2020, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin_boy

is it a good idea to use a 35mm up front and keep the rear stock? I will def be getting the endlinks. do i also need bushings while im at it?

I'm running the Hotchkis bar which is pretty much the strongest/stiffest bar out of the box you can buy. I like it a lot and noticed a big difference in handling after i installed it.

I'd recommend you leave the stock rear bar on for now, but when it comes time for coilovers you're going to want to either disconnect it or remove altogether.

Hotrodz · 07-23-2020, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

I'm running the Hotchkis bar which is pretty much the strongest/stiffest bar out of the box you can buy. I like it a lot and noticed a big difference in handling after i installed it.

I'd recommend you leave the stock rear bar on for now, but when it comes time for coilovers you're going to want to either disconnect it or remove altogether.

^^^Agreed! I don't know if you are still running OEM staggered setup or have moved to a square setup as that too will impact your suspension setup.

As for the bushing they are a good investment but if you are going to upgraded the front end get SPL front upper A arms. They are spendy but totally worth it in setting up and maintaining, caster, camber and tow!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

AlWakRa · 07-25-2020, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

If you're interested in tracking with a dedicated group of Nissan enthusiasts, hope you might consider coming out to a Nissan Challenge event. We are scheduled to resume our 2020 season in September if COVID conditions permit it.

I hope I was in US, so I can join these events

looks fun with other fellow Nissan drivers.

///maestro · 07-30-2020, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

I'm running the Hotchkis bar which is pretty much the strongest/stiffest bar out of the box you can buy. I like it a lot and noticed a big difference in handling after i installed it.

I'd recommend you leave the stock rear bar on for now, but when it comes time for coilovers you're going to want to either disconnect it or remove altogether.

Remove the rear? Any reasoning behind that? I would imagine the rear end would be a little too wild in hard turns. My current setup is whiteline front and oem rear.

Eagle · 07-30-2020, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///maestro

Remove the rear? Any reasoning behind that? I would imagine the rear end would be a little too wild in hard turns. My current setup is whiteline front and oem rear.

So with the OEM suspension the spring rates and rebound/damping are soft enough to allow the rear suspension to transition smoothly over bumps and undulations in the road while under load. So you can keep the stock rear bar and everything works fine.

When you change to coil overs with higher spring rates and stiffer rebound/damping and keep the rear bar, it doesn't translate very well over the road at speed anymore. It sort of skips around and causes the rear end to snap.

So an easy way to combat that is to soften the rear bar to your comfort, but in general the bar gets disconnected or removed because even the stock bar introduces too much snap oversteer, which you then have to try and dial out with your coilovers. Which is why i've never mounted my Hotchkis rear sway bar to this day. If you do a little research on the forum here, you'll find similar feedback from other fairly experienced drivers.

It's easier to remove the snap oversteer and then control that rotation with refined adjustments to the coilovers by increasing the stiffness one click at a time.

To illustrate, this is what it looks like with coilovers set to full soft settings, hotchkis front bar installed and the OEM rear sway bar on.

In the end it really all comes down to preference, this was excessive rotation for me so I changed my setup accordingly.

///maestro · 07-31-2020, 12:05 AM

Interesting. I may have to unbolt mine and test it out on the next track day.

Eagle · 07-31-2020, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///maestro

Interesting. I may have to unbolt mine and test it out on the next track day.

Its worth a try, one of my buddies did it and he didnt like it very much because he felt like the car was understeering too much. Now keep in mind he's drifter so what's normal rotation for him is probably fairly different than for most people. I think he ended up being a bit faster or he put down a similar lap time to his previous PB at Laguna Seca prior to making the change though. So sometimes it can be really subjective as to which one is better or not.

If it is too understeery you can dial out some of that understeer by playing around with your coilovers and stiffening the rear.

DarkJak · 07-31-2020, 07:33 PM

I put a g37x rear sway on. Testing coming next week to see if I like it at the track.

thekinn · 08-01-2020, 08:02 AM

I drive a 350z, but I think that I'm kind of experiencing the same thing. I've tried disconnecting the rear sway bar and didn't really care for it. Trying to think of a way to give the OEM bar less stiffness.

Rusty · 08-01-2020, 12:48 PM

Up-date article on the new Shell helmet standards.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/do...paign=202008-1

AlWakRa · 08-02-2020, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

So with the OEM suspension the spring rates and rebound/damping are soft enough to allow the rear suspension to transition smoothly over bumps and undulations in the road while under load. So you can keep the stock rear bar and everything works fine.

When you change to coil overs with higher spring rates and stiffer rebound/damping and keep the rear bar, it doesn't translate very well over the road at speed anymore. It sort of skips around and causes the rear end to snap.

So an easy way to combat that is to soften the rear bar to your comfort, but in general the bar gets disconnected or removed because even the stock bar introduces too much snap oversteer, which you then have to try and dial out with your coilovers. Which is why i've never mounted my Hotchkis rear sway bar to this day. If you do a little research on the forum here, you'll find similar feedback from other fairly experienced drivers.

It's easier to remove the snap oversteer and then control that rotation with refined adjustments to the coilovers by increasing the stiffness one click at a time.

To illustrate, this is what it looks like with coilovers set to full soft settings, hotchkis front bar installed and the OEM rear sway bar on.

In the end it really all comes down to preference, this was excessive rotation for me so I changed my setup accordingly.

Reminds me when I have a messed up alignment at the back, with around -3 camber and nearly 0.4 toe in at the back. It wasn't kind even to smooth inputs

OptionZero · 08-02-2020, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

So with the OEM suspension the spring rates and rebound/damping are soft enough to allow the rear suspension to transition smoothly over bumps and undulations in the road while under load. So you can keep the stock rear bar and everything works fine.

When you change to coil overs with higher spring rates and stiffer rebound/damping and keep the rear bar, it doesn't translate very well over the road at speed anymore. It sort of skips around and causes the rear end to snap.

So an easy way to combat that is to soften the rear bar to your comfort, but in general the bar gets disconnected or removed because even the stock bar introduces too much snap oversteer, which you then have to try and dial out with your coilovers. Which is why i've never mounted my Hotchkis rear sway bar to this day. If you do a little research on the forum here, you'll find similar feedback from other fairly experienced drivers.

It's easier to remove the snap oversteer and then control that rotation with refined adjustments to the coilovers by increasing the stiffness one click at a time.

To illustrate, this is what it looks like with coilovers set to full soft settings, hotchkis front bar installed and the OEM rear sway bar on.

In the end it really all comes down to preference, this was excessive rotation for me so I changed my setup accordingly.

Counterpoint:
It probably looked COOL AS HELL from outside

07-31-2020, 12:05 AM	#159 (permalink)
///maestro Track Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 530 Drives: 11' 370z\|09' BMW M3 Rep Power: 11	Interesting. I may have to unbolt mine and test it out on the next track day. Eagle likes this. __________________ Gallo24 swapped 370z Instagram: @z34_motorsport

07-31-2020, 07:33 PM	#161 (permalink)
DarkJak A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 1,397 Drives: 2009 370Z Rep Power: 16804	I put a g37x rear sway on. Testing coming next week to see if I like it at the track. Eagle likes this. __________________ @stupidtoycars \| My track vids 09 7AT\|MCS 2WNR\|Topgunz Rotrex\|Ecutek (Eugene)\|Maxxis RC1\|Titan-7 TS-5\|OSG LSD\|Rear Mount Derale Oil Cooler (WIP)+25 Trans Cooler\|Fismo\|G-LOC R12/R10\|Zeta III L\|NLR Wing and Splitter\|CJM Pan and Fuel Hat\|Radium Surge Tank\|AP Racing CP9668

08-01-2020, 08:02 AM	#162 (permalink)
thekinn Base Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 206 Drives: 06 350Z LS MT Rep Power: 6862	I drive a 350z, but I think that I'm kind of experiencing the same thing. I've tried disconnecting the rear sway bar and didn't really care for it. Trying to think of a way to give the OEM bar less stiffness. __________________ 06 Enthusiast MT - v2

08-01-2020, 12:48 PM	#163 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,186 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684437	Up-date article on the new Shell helmet standards. https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/do...paign=202008-1 __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

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