Just so you don't think the Nissan was faulty...

osbornsm · 09-18-2018, 10:12 AM

Just so you don't think the Nissan was faulty...

I boiled the brake fluid in the Camaro SS 1LE too...
- 6-piston caliper
- 2-piece 14.6" rotors

WTF is going on here

Brendan · 09-18-2018, 10:29 AM

I just think its getting harder for manufacturers to make a capable track vehicle at the sub $100k price range while also making it compelling on the street. There are, of course, exceptions. They opt for a compelling street car since that is what the majority of buyers want, but often cooling and braking still need improvement. It is what it is. Not too hard to fix.

JARblue · 09-18-2018, 11:39 AM

Stock fluid?

osbornsm · 09-18-2018, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Stock fluid?

Motul RBF600...

to...
the...
floor.

2011 Nismo#91 · 09-18-2018, 04:39 PM

Track pads and fluid and brake boil on 2 different cars. You sure you're not on the brakes too much/early?

osbornsm · 09-18-2018, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011 Nismo#91

Track pads and fluid and brake boil on 2 different cars. You sure you're not on the brakes too much/early?

no idea... i'll adjust and report back.

Hotrodz · 09-18-2018, 05:14 PM

My buddy that I track with has a 14 1le and he did the same thing over and over again boiling both Motul and Castro brake fluids. He went with track brake pads and has gone through three set of rotors. He has now add 3" brake ducting.

He is also a very late braker and stands on them hard. I and other have tried to coach him braking hard and deep into each corner is not the best that sometimes you want to ease into it slowing then trailing off so you can carry more speed through the corner which will result in a greater exit speed. Braking should not be done like an on off button regardless.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

BGTV8 · 09-18-2018, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osbornsm

Just so you don't think the Nissan was faulty...

I boiled the brake fluid in the Camaro SS 1LE too...
- 6-piston caliper
- 2-piece 14.6" rotors

WTF is going on here

Physics is the answer ............ not wanting to trivialise this BUT ........

Brakes convert kinetic energy of a moving vehicle into heat to slow it down.

The shorter the time that the heat builds up increases the max temp the pads see and greater the opportunity for heat to get past the pads and into the pistons which will transfer it to the fluid.

So, my suggestions are:
1. More cooling (lots more - maybe 2 x 3" ducts)
2. Put temperature paint on the rotors and calipers so you can see just how hot it is all getting
3. Consider titanium pad backing plates OR titanium shims
4. Check your data and compare to a buddies .... are you over slowing the car before rotating into a corner
5. Look to driving style - can you extend the braking zone with a trail-brake. If you carry the brake longer, you extend the time over which kinetic energy is dissipated equals less heat build up
6. Look to the rotors and rotor material .... the rotor is a heat sink so with greater mass comes greater ability to absorb temperature which means less temp into the pad/piston and ultimately fluid BUT the quid quo pro is a heavier hub/rotor/caliper assembly for the shocks to control in bump and rebound and more rotational inertia to affect performance - small but if you look at data, you should be able to see it
7. The other thing I forgot to mention is that pad material is also an effective insulator, so chuck your pads in the bin when there is 5mm or less pad material left on the backing plate - usually around 10mm overall including backing plate.

Your sig suggests DBA rotors and I reckon you've outgrown what is effectively a road car rotor so look to race rotors ..............

These guys do really good motorsport rotors BUT they are exie ...

http://www.brypar.com/product-catego...r-brake-discs/

This is a heat-management exercise and won;t be a cheap fix ....

Simplest and cheapest is to look to driver technique and that is about maximising mid-corner speed which reduces the speed you need to kill and the kinetic energy you need to turn into heat - and trail braking is one key technique.

Good luck !!

Hotrodz · 09-18-2018, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTV8

Physics is the answer ............ not wanting to trivialise this BUT ........

Brakes convert kinetic energy of a moving vehicle into heat to slow it down.

The shorter the time that the heat builds up increases the max temp the pads see and greater the opportunity for heat to get past the pads and into the pistons which will transfer it to the fluid.

So, my suggestions are:
1. More cooling (lots more - maybe 2 x 3" ducts)
2. Put temperature paint on the rotors and calipers so you can see just how hot it is all getting
3. Consider titanium pad backing plates
4. Check your data and compare to a buddies .... are you over slowing the car before rotating into a corner
5. Look to driving style - can you extend the braking zone with a trail-brake. If you carry the brake longer, you extend the time over which kinetic energy is dissipated equals less heat build up
6. Look to the rotors and rotor material .... the rotor is a heat sink so with greater mass comes greater ability to absorb temperature which means less temp into the pad/piston and ultimately fluid BUT the quid quo pro is a heavier hub/rotor/caliper assembly for the shocks to control in bump and rebound and more rotational inertia to affect performance - small but if you look at data, you should be able to see it

Your sig suggests DBA rotors and I reckon you've outgrown what is effectively a road car rotor so look to race rotors ..............

These guys do really good motorsport rotors BUT they are exie ...

http://www.brypar.com/product-catego...r-brake-discs/

This is a heat-management exercise and won;t be a cheap fix ....

Simplest and cheapest is to look to driver technique and that is about maximising mid-corner speed which reduces the speed you need to kill and the kinetic energy you need to turn into heat - and trail braking is one key technique.

Good luck !!

I always appreciate the details in your explanations.

The other thing is the Camaro is a big car at about 4000 lbs.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

cv129 · 09-18-2018, 07:20 PM

It’s fair to say the technology in braking has not kept up with the developments in suspension, engine power level, transmission speed and tires. Everything else aim to make the car go and turn faster, but there hasn’t been any ground breaking development in the braking system.

Edit: minus the carbon ceramics in the exotics.

Rusty · 09-18-2018, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

It’s fair to say the technology in braking has not kept up with the developments in suspension, engine power level, transmission speed and tires. Everything else aim to make the car go and turn faster, but there hasn’t been any ground breaking development in the braking system.

Edit: minus the carbon ceramics in the exotics.

When the cars for the masses start to need the ability of the carbon brakes. Then you will see it at lower priced cars. Until then. It's for the exotics.

BGTV8 · 09-18-2018, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

I always appreciate the details in your explanations.

The other thing is the Camaro is a big car at about 4000 lbs.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Camaro is a variation on the Holden Commodore which is pretty common here (1850-1900kgs so 4000lbs easy).

The guys that track them here all use OEM Brembo's until they start running into problems and then they use cast-off V8SuperCar brakes which are an AP Racing package with 395mm rotors (34mm thick)

Hotrodz · 09-18-2018, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTV8

Camaro is a variation on the Holden Commodore which is pretty common here (1850-1900kgs so 4000lbs easy).

The guys that track them here all use OEM Brembo's until they start running into problems and then they use cast-off V8SuperCar brakes which are an AP Racing package with 395mm rotors (34mm thick)

Good to know because my buddy had his Brembos rebuilt and I don't know if the outcome will be any different for him. He said the brakes cooling did help some.

Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Rusty · 09-18-2018, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

Good to know because my buddy had his Brembos rebuilt and I don't know if the outcome will be any different for him. He said the brakes cooling did help some.

Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Got to get the heat out.

osbornsm · 09-19-2018, 09:21 AM

The plan so far...

1. Camaro is 3700 lbs
2. Titanium backing plates
3. Castrol SRF
4. Carry WAY more speed and brake less <-- not as easy

09-18-2018, 10:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
osbornsm A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: WHAT Posts: 2,551 Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Rep Power: 424	Just so you don't think the Nissan was faulty... Just so you don't think the Nissan was faulty... I boiled the brake fluid in the Camaro SS 1LE too... - 6-piston caliper - 2-piece 14.6" rotors WTF is going on here AlWakRa, JARblue, cv129 and 3 others like this. __________________ 2018 Camaro SS 1LE (455hp) - 2011 Nissan 370z (333hp) - 2004 VW R32 (240hp) - 2000 Civic Si (160hp)

09-18-2018, 10:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
Brendan Track Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 642 Drives: Poor man's Porsche Rep Power: 542	I just think its getting harder for manufacturers to make a capable track vehicle at the sub $100k price range while also making it compelling on the street. There are, of course, exceptions. They opt for a compelling street car since that is what the majority of buyers want, but often cooling and braking still need improvement. It is what it is. Not too hard to fix. osbornsm and Hidalgo like this. Last edited by Brendan; 09-18-2018 at 10:32 AM.

09-18-2018, 11:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 43 Posts: 36,450 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684440	Stock fluid? __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \|

09-18-2018, 04:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
2011 Nismo#91 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 2,402 Drives: slowly Rep Power: 40569	Track pads and fluid and brake boil on 2 different cars. You sure you're not on the brakes too much/early? __________________ GTR TT 493Whp/431lbft, Ecutek, Southbend 6puck,Quaife, RPM RollBar 4Point, R888R, JRZ RSPro F(10R/10C) R(10R/6C) 1000f500r inlbs+150inlbs Tender, SPL everywhere.Full Specs

09-18-2018, 05:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	My buddy that I track with has a 14 1le and he did the same thing over and over again boiling both Motul and Castro brake fluids. He went with track brake pads and has gone through three set of rotors. He has now add 3" brake ducting. He is also a very late braker and stands on them hard. I and other have tried to coach him braking hard and deep into each corner is not the best that sometimes you want to ease into it slowing then trailing off so you can carry more speed through the corner which will result in a greater exit speed. Braking should not be done like an on off button regardless. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk FPenvy and Brendan like this. __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

09-18-2018, 07:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,237 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163995	It’s fair to say the technology in braking has not kept up with the developments in suspension, engine power level, transmission speed and tires. Everything else aim to make the car go and turn faster, but there hasn’t been any ground breaking development in the braking system. Edit: minus the carbon ceramics in the exotics. __________________ Setrab \| RE-71 \| SPL \| JRZ \| Nismo \| ARK \| Whiteline \| RacingBrake \| CJM Oil Pan \| Ti shield Last edited by cv129; 09-18-2018 at 07:23 PM.

09-19-2018, 09:21 AM	#15 (permalink)
osbornsm A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: WHAT Posts: 2,551 Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Rep Power: 424	The plan so far... 1. Camaro is 3700 lbs 2. Titanium backing plates 3. Castrol SRF 4. Carry WAY more speed and brake less <-- not as easy BGTV8, 2011 Nismo#91 and Rusty like this. __________________ 2018 Camaro SS 1LE (455hp) - 2011 Nissan 370z (333hp) - 2004 VW R32 (240hp) - 2000 Civic Si (160hp)

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