Virginia International Raceway Crashes

spearfish25

So my new hobby is watching track day wrecks on Youtube. I'm amazed at the wrecks I've seen at VIR. Many of the videos have cars abruptly losing control, especially on the stretch with the slight left/right curves. I've never seen cars just suddenly lose the back end the way I've seen in vids from that track. Any thoughts?

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Sharif@Forged

VIR is one of the most challenging road courses in the country. It's befuddled and frustrated even the most experienced drivers, and anything can happen out there for a myriad of reasons. Drivers loose control for various reasons...and it's not just VIR.

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spearfish25

I never knew the history of VIR. I'm amazed at how they lose control though. Even an R8 in the gentle twisties suddenly goes completely off the track very abruptly.

I made my friend watch these vids before our last track day so he didn't let the competitive spirit get the best of him.

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speedworks

If you are talking the uphill twisties, first of all you are going very fast there, and shifting the weight back and forth (slightly). In my race car, I remember being flat out in fifth gear, so it is very fast. That slight shifting, is enough to unsettle the cars. Is that the area you are talking about? Now, I think the blind lefty after the twisties is the most difficult turn, as you crest the hill, you get light, the turn is blind, and it is still very fast. That is a turn that a lot of spins occur.

As for a challenging track, I would agree, but it is very fun. I would also say though, that the Glen is more challenging.

spearfish25

Here, check this one out. Sorry for the language, but he obviously wasn't too happy.



Another abrupt loss of control:


This one the driver missed the line completely (skip to the last 10 seconds):

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speedworks

Yeap, the second one is where most of the crashes occur (go off drivers right and spin to the left. The 1st and 3rd one are what I was saying, in terms of how fast you are going, and shifting the weight left/right/left/right, and the faster you're going, the less input needed to spin. The other reason this happens is, since you want to carry as much speed as possible, you usually look for the straightest path (less steering input), and when you do that you hit/run over the FIA curbing, throwing the balance out as well.

My recommendation, small inputs, and with the speed you are going let the car slide a little left/right as you go through it. Early apex and once you have screwed up, slowly lift - that is what happened to the last guy, he got behind on the apexs and as he tried to catch up it was too much input and the rear went away.

CBRich

"Don't hit the wall, don't hit the wall . . . "

Classic.

Sharif@Forged

That was really aweful to watch.

The uphill essesses have collected a lot of cars. As mentioned, the high powered cars are turning in at 140mph, and running up through the esses at 120mph+. Steering inputs need to be gentle but committed and if you get behind you are screwed because the track will run out really quickly. It's a majorly ballsy section of track. But if you nail it right, there is a ton of time to be picked up. I would say that the majority of crashes happen in the two sections in the video.

Most in car video is really bad at capturing speed, but these cars were likely all doing well over 100mph when they lost it.

Now stop digging up these vids, as you are starting to freak me out.... Statistically, on any given day, there is about a 2-5% chance of wrecking your car on track, so the odds are in your favor.

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spearfish25

It's sobering how quickly you can completely lose control. I was crapping myself the night before my last track day after watching some of these. The more alarming vids are the guys who really fight the spinout, go off the track sideways, and roll.



I'll start another thread with my latest youtube fetish...racecars hitting animals on track

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speedworks

^^^ Another scary turn. Many of my friends have stuffed their cars into the wall on drivers left. At LR, this uphill turn, and the downhill, are the 2 turns that scare the **** out of me, and when you get loose, the lickelyhood of damage is high. He probably tried to compensate on this turn, hoping not to hit the guardrail on the left, and paid the price unfortunately by hitting some rough terrain on the right.

This all supports my previous thoughts about running a race car vs dd on track events. You have to be willing to write the car off....

hazzazi

i was thinking to take my car to the track (i've never gone before).. but after these videos, and how easily each and everyone of them crashed.. i'm seriously having second thought, and most likely i'm not going anymore.

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spearfish25

Don't deprive yourself of one of the most fun things you'll ever do!

Here's the issue. Any HPDE will tell you to drive at 7/10ths of the car's ability. These guys who are crashing have gone beyond the 7/10ths. It's easy to do, especially by the end of the track day. You'll feel comfortable, have another car that you've been wanting to be faster than all day, and you'll start to 'go for it'. These are the dangerous factors during an HPDE that will get you driving more than 7/10ths and have you end up in a spinout or against a wall. If you're cautious, stay at 7/10ths or below and just enjoy the day as an education and not a championship race, you'll get by A-OK.

I've done two track days. Both times there were a couple of spinouts and one guy met the wall. Here are two observations I've made:
1) If you take your car to the track in a dedicated trailer and/or have racing numbers and decals on it....you'll probably crash or break your car. These are definitely negative prognostic factors, likely because these guys drive at 9 or 10/10ths.
2) People in Vipers and Vettes will spin out more frequently. The people pushing 400-500hp seem to routinely get on the throttle too hard and lose control.

The HPDE track days were both excellent experiences and unbelievable fun. I have a much better feel for my car now, especially after the second day when the track was wet for half of the sessions. Just use these videos as reminders that you're not a race driver, the days aren't a competition, and if you get overzealous the walls will bite you .

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spearfish25

Kinda makes you want to laugh and cry at the same time.

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2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

SmoothZ

Seems to be a lot of small ups and downs which can make you lose control quickly. Watching the vids makes me think I'd be pretty nervous on some of those turns where you can go up, then turn, and lose it.

I think what happens with some people driving a course is that they get comfortable and go faster and faster as they learn the course. Eventually, it might get the better of them. Happens to the best.

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hazzazi

thanks spearfish for that write out... if i end up going, those videos will always be playing in the back of my head, so i don't think i'll over do anything, but again thanks for this, it makes me feel better, and hopefully in the spring i'll go try it out if i ever had the chance.

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i Don't Drive Fast, i just Fly Slow.