370z crashed at VIR? member here?

bullitt5897 · 12-08-2009, 08:05 PM

watch his RPM gauge and you will notice he was way to high of a gear for that turn and should have down shifted I think at mid turn his RPMs were at 2500-3200 which to me is way too low for any type of throttle response or recovery. Also his line that he took was more conductive to oversteer and I think the combination of that and his breaking technique sent him in that direction. But that is just my opinion from what I could gather from the incar video... what do yall think?

spearfish25 · 12-08-2009, 08:50 PM

Looked like he was at about 5k rpm when the slide first started and then the RPM dropped into the 3k range during the slide. Not sure how that would have contributed. However after watching it over and over, it looks like he took that corner way too hot given how sharp that corner was. When I first watched, I thought he slide on a gentle left-right transition. Watching again, that was essentially a 90 degree right hand turn. No way he was going to pull that off at those speeds.

Mike · 12-08-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

He was being told to trailbrake around that corner on his first track day ... that should've been slow in power out his first time there..

Needed to countersteer more and faster to try and save that.

Sorry Bobo!

Trailbraking or not, he turned in way too early for that particular corner. You need to hug the 2nd half of that apex to make the turn correctly and set up for the next corner.

KillerBee370 · 12-08-2009, 11:16 PM

I'm boggled as to how this happened. It looks like slow motion in the video. Seems like he should have been accelerating at that point.

speedworks · 12-08-2009, 11:17 PM

Yeah, I don't think he came in too hot, if so he would have gone off driver's left, not right - I've done it, the momentum throws you off the track, down the hill. And trailbraking at a first HPDE is not a problem; as an experienced driver, there is nothing wrong with promoting/teaching that early on. I do agree he turned in too early, and he forgot the all important, when in a spin, 2 feet in. It is a track day, not a race, so once you are out of control, don't risk trying to power out of it, just hit the brakes.

As for iracing.com, I agree to do that, it actually has my race car as an option (spec racer ford), and I have tested that system before and it is probably the best out there.

At least he had a positive attitude, and will fix it, and hopefully have fun again.

KillerBee370 · 12-08-2009, 11:23 PM

Yeah watching the in-car footage again and again, he most definitely wasn't coming in too hot. I swear besides turning in a tad early (if that) it looks as though he hits some oil or something.

Strange but there will be other track days!!!!

Sharif@Forged · 12-09-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedworks

Yeah, I don't think he came in too hot, if so he would have gone off driver's left, not right - I've done it, the momentum throws you off the track, down the hill. And trailbraking at a first HPDE is not a problem; as an experienced driver, there is nothing wrong with promoting/teaching that early on. I do agree he turned in too early, and he forgot the all important, when in a spin, 2 feet in. It is a track day, not a race, so once you are out of control, don't risk trying to power out of it, just hit the brakes.

As for iracing.com, I agree to do that, it actually has my race car as an option (spec racer ford), and I have tested that system before and it is probably the best out there.

At least he had a positive attitude, and will fix it, and hopefully have fun again.

I think this most accurately summed it up. Obviously, I don't think anyone is critisizing the driver, but we can all learn from mistakes and make this a teach-able moment as our President is fond of saying.

When you track your car long enough, it's only a matter of time before you go off-roading and hit something....hopefully something soft.

Here is one of my laps at VIR a couple months ago. Forward to 1:40 to view the same section of track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r-xvHyuTXs
Just a hair later on turn in, gradually apply power and the car will naturally track to the outside.

It's hard to gauge speed in the video, but I am inclinded to think there may have been something on track or slippery. Either way, a quicker lift of the throttle, a faster correction and/or full lock braking if needed would have kept the car off the barrier. Live and learn, and get back in the saddle quickly.

speedworks · 12-09-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged

When you track your car long enough, it's only a matter of time before you go off-roading and hit something....hopefully something soft.

And this is why I have a dedicated race car - I just don't want to wreck my DD. Think about all of things that could happen: you spin, someone spins you, you hit someone whose spun, you have a car failure, a tire failure, .....

Here is my racetrack DD

KillerBee370 · 12-09-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedworks

And this is why I have a dedicated race car - I just don't want to wreck my DD. Think about all of things that could happen: you spin, someone spins you, you hit someone whose spun, you have a car failure, a tire failure, .....

Here is my racetrack DD

That's all fine and dandy but mostly the point of driving your DD (even if it's not really a DD as in my case) at the track on a day of hotlapping is really to see what your individual car will do and what you are comfortable with. If I had a dedicated race car, I would be doing just that... racing. Hotlapping and racing are two very different things.

speedworks · 12-09-2009, 09:12 PM

^^ I agree, but it is a lot of wear/tear on a car that you hope to drive the next day, every day, which is the point I am making. Plus the red mist will always get to you, as this example shows, and now you are in a rental car. You can always find the limits of your car in slower speed events like auto-x (did that for 5 years), and really tighten your driving skills, and find the limits of your car, in the typical speed range you would be in on the roads.

If you really looked at the dollars you put into a DD to put it on the track, you could easily buy a dedicated race car - there are cheap ones out there, and I guarantee you will have just as much fun, and it will be safer. I have seen too many DD's wrecked at an event, either poorly instructed, or poorly insured, and the car is totalled, and the driver is injured - no 5 point seat belts, no rollcages, firesuits, fuel cutoff, HANS, etc.

Mike · 12-09-2009, 09:24 PM

yep, my 370 is pretty much my dedicated track car, but I do drive it on the streets also. My C6 is my back up street car, but I'm not sure how long its gonna be until I totally strip and cage the Z, and take it off the streets altogether.

Sharif@Forged · 12-09-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

yep, my 370 is pretty much my dedicated track car, but I do drive it on the streets also. My C6 is my back up street car, but I'm not sure how long its gonna be until I totally strip and cage the Z, and take it off the streets altogether.

I'll give it until the New Years.

Mike · 12-10-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged

I'll give it until the New Years.

no, a little longer than that, since its street season for a couple months! No track days until march or april.

ianthegreat · 12-10-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

watch his RPM gauge and you will notice he was way to high of a gear for that turn and should have down shifted I think at mid turn his RPMs were at 2500-3200 which to me is way too low for any type of throttle response or recovery.

That's what happens with yalls' fancy synchro rev

Mightybobo:

Get it fixed up and go back out to have some fun!

bullitt5897 · 12-10-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

no, a little longer than that, since its street season for a couple months! No track days until march or april.

Im sure Sharif may have a few track days he could pull together for you lol

in all reality he is probably gonna be tied up with my build, his Track 370z and the GTR

Sharif is gonna be a busy boy

12-08-2009, 08:05 PM	#16 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	watch his RPM gauge and you will notice he was way to high of a gear for that turn and should have down shifted I think at mid turn his RPMs were at 2500-3200 which to me is way too low for any type of throttle response or recovery. Also his line that he took was more conductive to oversteer and I think the combination of that and his breaking technique sent him in that direction. But that is just my opinion from what I could gather from the incar video... what do yall think? __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

12-08-2009, 08:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Looked like he was at about 5k rpm when the slide first started and then the RPM dropped into the 3k range during the slide. Not sure how that would have contributed. However after watching it over and over, it looks like he took that corner way too hot given how sharp that corner was. When I first watched, I thought he slide on a gentle left-right transition. Watching again, that was essentially a 90 degree right hand turn. No way he was going to pull that off at those speeds. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

12-08-2009, 11:17 PM	#20 (permalink)
speedworks Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 550 Drives: PW purchased 01/09 Rep Power: 17	Yeah, I don't think he came in too hot, if so he would have gone off driver's left, not right - I've done it, the momentum throws you off the track, down the hill. And trailbraking at a first HPDE is not a problem; as an experienced driver, there is nothing wrong with promoting/teaching that early on. I do agree he turned in too early, and he forgot the all important, when in a spin, 2 feet in. It is a track day, not a race, so once you are out of control, don't risk trying to power out of it, just hit the brakes. As for iracing.com, I agree to do that, it actually has my race car as an option (spec racer ford), and I have tested that system before and it is probably the best out there. At least he had a positive attitude, and will fix it, and hopefully have fun again. Last edited by speedworks; 12-08-2009 at 11:25 PM.

12-09-2009, 09:24 PM	#26 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2186	yep, my 370 is pretty much my dedicated track car, but I do drive it on the streets also. My C6 is my back up street car, but I'm not sure how long its gonna be until I totally strip and cage the Z, and take it off the streets altogether. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Crashed - Need Advice	Jason	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	80	10-17-2009 07:12 PM
370z poor handling, crashed and flipped...	YamahaR6	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	24	09-19-2009 09:10 AM
Crashed the 370z on Test Drive..	nurburgring	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	176	07-06-2009 03:02 AM
Just crashed	DinoJ	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	44	05-16-2009 08:40 PM
18 New Porsches Crashed!!!!	AK370Z	Other Vehicles	4	11-20-2008 10:59 AM

12-08-2009, 11:16 PM	#19 (permalink)
KillerBee370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: So Cal baby! Age: 51 Posts: 5,964 Drives: with passion Rep Power: 321	I'm boggled as to how this happened. It looks like slow motion in the video. Seems like he should have been accelerating at that point.

12-08-2009, 11:23 PM	#21 (permalink)
KillerBee370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: So Cal baby! Age: 51 Posts: 5,964 Drives: with passion Rep Power: 321	Yeah watching the in-car footage again and again, he most definitely wasn't coming in too hot. I swear besides turning in a tad early (if that) it looks as though he hits some oil or something. Strange but there will be other track days!!!!

12-09-2009, 09:12 PM	#25 (permalink)
speedworks Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 550 Drives: PW purchased 01/09 Rep Power: 17	^^ I agree, but it is a lot of wear/tear on a car that you hope to drive the next day, every day, which is the point I am making. Plus the red mist will always get to you, as this example shows, and now you are in a rental car. You can always find the limits of your car in slower speed events like auto-x (did that for 5 years), and really tighten your driving skills, and find the limits of your car, in the typical speed range you would be in on the roads. If you really looked at the dollars you put into a DD to put it on the track, you could easily buy a dedicated race car - there are cheap ones out there, and I guarantee you will have just as much fun, and it will be safer. I have seen too many DD's wrecked at an event, either poorly instructed, or poorly insured, and the car is totalled, and the driver is injured - no 5 point seat belts, no rollcages, firesuits, fuel cutoff, HANS, etc.