Laguna Seca Track Day Brake Issue

dua564 · 07-20-2016, 03:50 PM

Buckeye, when you say too aggressive on the throttle, do you mean when applying power at the apex? I brake in a straight line before the turn, turn in and hit the power at the apex. You're saying I should apply light power here?

Rusty, Yes. I noticed the TCS light came coming out of turns. It was especially noticeable at turn 11 on Laguna Seca which I feel is the hardest on brakes and shifting to second gear (hard to get that combo right).

What do you guys suggest to improve my next track day with regards to TCS, braking and applying power with this car? I'm on the base 2013 model so no LSD

synolimit · 07-20-2016, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dua564

Buckeye, when you say too aggressive on the throttle, do you mean when applying power at the apex? I brake in a straight line before the turn, turn in and hit the power at the apex. You're saying I should apply light power here?

Rusty, Yes. I noticed the TCS light came coming out of turns. It was especially noticeable at turn 11 on Laguna Seca which I feel is the hardest on brakes and shifting to second gear (hard to get that combo right).

What do you guys suggest to improve my next track day with regards to TCS, braking and applying power with this car? I'm on the base 2013 model so no LSD

Yes he's saying you're to aggressive power on at the apex. You're forcing the cars VDC to kick on and that's why your lights flashing and the cars applying the rear brakes to keep you straight. He's saying if you turn the VDC off and drive the same you're gonna spin in the same turns you're cooking your brakes in and killing your pads. Turn it off next time but drive slower unless you know how to drift.

Rusty · 07-20-2016, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

Yes he's saying you're to aggressive power on at the apex. You're forcing the cars VDC to kick on and that's why your lights flashing and the cars applying the rear brakes to keep you straight. He's saying if you turn the VDC off and drive the same you're gonna spin in the same turns you're cooking your brakes in and killing your pads. Turn it off next time but drive slower unless you know how to drift.

BuckeyeZ · 07-20-2016, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dua564

Buckeye, when you say too aggressive on the throttle, do you mean when applying power at the apex? I brake in a straight line before the turn, turn in and hit the power at the apex. You're saying I should apply light power here?

I'm on the base 2013 model so no LSD

Yes. Each turn at each track is different so there is no 'rule'. You can start applying light throttle as you start to unwind the wheel, and the more you unwind the harder you can accelerate. I would expect that you would not be flat-on-the-floor until the steering wheel is straight.

I missed the fact that you were in base model. No LSD makes your brake wear situation even worse.

Rusty · 07-20-2016, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckeyeZ

Yes. Each turn at each track is different so there is no 'rule'. You can start applying light throttle as you start to unwind the wheel, and the more you unwind the harder you can accelerate. I would expect that you would not be flat-on-the-floor until the steering wheel is straight.

I missed the fact that you were in base model. No LSD makes your brake wear situation even worse.

The inside tire is spinning.

Spooler · 07-20-2016, 10:52 PM

All the nanny gadgets make folks feel as if they can drive well when in fact that is not the case. They make it harder to learn the true way the car needs to be driven.

dua564 · 07-21-2016, 03:17 PM

Will the VDC eat the rear Carbotechs just as easily as EBC Redstuff or OEMs? I've never seen burnt brake material in my life until post Laguna Seca sessions

ramoszx12r · 07-21-2016, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckeyeZ

Guys: I don't wait to start another debate on VDC, but if the OP is wearing out a set of rear pads that quickly, he is way too aggressive on the throttle. If he turns VDC off, this will be a guaranteed spin (hell, I have spun on track with VDC on!). Hopefully, he isn't being followed closely or doesn't hit anything until he learns the 'feel'.

OP: Feel free to turn the VDC off, but do it in a safe place. Maybe this is what you need to learn how hard you are pressing the gas and the power that your can can put down with very little throttle.

Good luck and stay safe!

ban25 · 07-21-2016, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dua564

Buckeye, when you say too aggressive on the throttle, do you mean when applying power at the apex? I brake in a straight line before the turn, turn in and hit the power at the apex. You're saying I should apply light power here?

Rusty, Yes. I noticed the TCS light came coming out of turns. It was especially noticeable at turn 11 on Laguna Seca which I feel is the hardest on brakes and shifting to second gear (hard to get that combo right).

What do you guys suggest to improve my next track day with regards to TCS, braking and applying power with this car? I'm on the base 2013 model so no LSD

11 is a slow turn anyway. What you want to do is line up on the right edge, brake hard, then turn in and slowly unwind after the apex. The goal is to get the car straightened out quickly so you can get on the gas coming onto the straight. Feel free to use that green strip on the right side. I always have my right tires on it coming out of T11. My buddy always has his left tires on it, LOL.

Hotrodz · 07-21-2016, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dua564

Will the VDC eat the rear Carbotechs just as easily as EBC Redstuff or OEMs? I've never seen burnt brake material in my life until post Laguna Seca sessions

There are two messages here for those that track mostly, learn to drive the car with the VDC turned off to avoid the helpers from helping you not to crash by cutting power and adding brake bias to the rear and learn how to break properly. We all use our brakes differently and so brake ware will very because of that. If you do threshold braking you will get burnt breake material as you call it on the edges of your brakes regardless of material. The OP would have same results with different pads, in fact he may put himself in real bad situation if he was running race pads as they may just lock up or cause the car to spin out as mentioned before due their aggressive nature.

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dua564 · 07-25-2016, 06:22 PM

Thanks guys! I appreciate your insightful responses. I will work on that before my next track day.

As for the steering wheel vibration I had, I took my car into the dealership and they said they would take $80 just to inspect! So I didn't want to do that but the service advisor said that if the vibration is happening at the steering wheel, it probably means the front rotors are "warped" and said resurfacing should fix the issue. Most people have said that rotors are never really "warped" just brakes are not bedded in properly. Also the vibration now only happens at hot temperature. I stopped seeing it on freeway braking. Resurfacing/buying new rotors are basically the same cost and my car is only 20k miles!!

When do you guys usually get rotors replaced? ( I have 20k miles and tracked the car twice at Laguna Seca).

ban25 · 07-25-2016, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dua564

Thanks guys! I appreciate your insightful responses. I will work on that before my next track day.

As for the steering wheel vibration I had, I took my car into the dealership and they said they would take $80 just to inspect! So I didn't want to do that but the service advisor said that if the vibration is happening at the steering wheel, it probably means the front rotors are "warped" and said resurfacing should fix the issue. Most people have said that rotors are never really "warped" just brakes are not bedded in properly. Also the vibration now only happens at hot temperature. I stopped seeing it on freeway braking. Resurfacing/buying new rotors are basically the same cost and my car is only 20k miles!!

When do you guys usually get rotors replaced? ( I have 20k miles and tracked the car twice at Laguna Seca).

I get at least a dozen track days on a set of StopTech rotors. They tend to vibrate for a lap or two when bedding in a new set of pads, but no issues beyond that. I just check for minimum thickness and look for cracks to make sure there's nothing on the edge.

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07-20-2016, 03:50 PM	#16 (permalink)
dua564 Base Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Bay Area Posts: 12 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 11	Buckeye, when you say too aggressive on the throttle, do you mean when applying power at the apex? I brake in a straight line before the turn, turn in and hit the power at the apex. You're saying I should apply light power here? Rusty, Yes. I noticed the TCS light came coming out of turns. It was especially noticeable at turn 11 on Laguna Seca which I feel is the hardest on brakes and shifting to second gear (hard to get that combo right). What do you guys suggest to improve my next track day with regards to TCS, braking and applying power with this car? I'm on the base 2013 model so no LSD

07-20-2016, 10:52 PM	#21 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 13,837 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684392	All the nanny gadgets make folks feel as if they can drive well when in fact that is not the case. They make it harder to learn the true way the car needs to be driven.

07-21-2016, 03:17 PM	#22 (permalink)
dua564 Base Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Bay Area Posts: 12 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 11	Will the VDC eat the rear Carbotechs just as easily as EBC Redstuff or OEMs? I've never seen burnt brake material in my life until post Laguna Seca sessions

07-25-2016, 06:22 PM	#26 (permalink)
dua564 Base Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Bay Area Posts: 12 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 11	Thanks guys! I appreciate your insightful responses. I will work on that before my next track day. As for the steering wheel vibration I had, I took my car into the dealership and they said they would take $80 just to inspect! So I didn't want to do that but the service advisor said that if the vibration is happening at the steering wheel, it probably means the front rotors are "warped" and said resurfacing should fix the issue. Most people have said that rotors are never really "warped" just brakes are not bedded in properly. Also the vibration now only happens at hot temperature. I stopped seeing it on freeway braking. Resurfacing/buying new rotors are basically the same cost and my car is only 20k miles!! When do you guys usually get rotors replaced? ( I have 20k miles and tracked the car twice at Laguna Seca).