How do you "sell" seat time over bolt-ons?

Read T · 02-18-2015, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glw

Bingo! Put a national champion or two into your driver seat and let them do a lap before you do yours. The national champion will likely be at a disadvantage because they will probably not be familiar with your car and will not run at 10/10ths. In any case, you will see how far you are from a good time in your car.

Heck not even a national champion. I have a few friends who are instructors and they can kick my butt in my own car. I still beat them with karts though

Z1NONLY · 02-18-2015, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tadpole

You couldnt have sold the "seat time" aspect any better. I did my first autocross last Sunday and realized how fast I really wasnt. Civics, Miatas, STI's, VW's were all faster than me with less horsepower.

Now granted I wasnt pushing hard the first few runs but when I did my Z wasnt going where I wanted it to go. By my last pass I dropped 4 seconds.

I need some more major (SEAT TIME) to go faster.

That's one of the best things about being new to the track. When you first start learning, the time comes off in big chunks.

Hotrodz · 02-18-2015, 09:46 PM

Your point about aptitude is spot on, that coupled with good instruction will always trump talent alone. Also, I agree talent can be developed...I just don't think it's about the platform. The (edit) GT Academy proves that...a Juke against a GTR, for reals! Boris would kick their butts straight up, he doesn't need paint balls!!!

03threefiftyz · 02-18-2015, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glw

Bingo! Put a national champion or two into your driver seat and let them do a lap before you do yours. The national champion will likely be at a disadvantage because they will probably not be familiar with your car and will not run at 10/10ths. In any case, you will see how far you are from a good time in your car.

Not really no...

...they'll adapt and put down top pax times in a few runs most likely.

Hotrodz · 02-18-2015, 10:43 PM

I will bring it back to seat time given that the platform does not matter. The one thing all those which excel at the highest levels have in common in perfecting their craft is time spent perfecting their craft and that magic number is 10,000 hours if you want to be great!!! This include those who are gifted at an early age...probably more so because they obsessed. If you want a reference, check out a book called "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell.

03threefiftyz · 02-19-2015, 07:02 AM

I probably haven't made 600 autocross runs in my life....I'm reasonable good, not great, at it...

Hotrodz · 02-19-2015, 08:50 AM

The major thing that goes with being great is access and opportunity, that is why we do not see a lot of minorities in motor sports. You got to have the means to have suitable car and maintain it, then access to a track that is open to you more than just track day and you need help (instruction, track time, money for parts). Yup for any of us to be good is good enough. Because it takes time to be good many will quit after the first couple of sessions. It's really a simple equation for any of us...Time/Cost/Value! If the TCV does not add up...then I'm out no matter what the endeavor is.

03threefiftyz · 02-19-2015, 10:53 AM

I usually got 80-85% first run and full bore by the second...

j-rho · 02-19-2015, 02:56 PM

In an autocross setting, consideration of the equipment - and safety - aren't concerns the way they might be on the track. The whole "x/10ths" thing applies in a track setting as an indication of the level of risk you're willing to take in regards to your equipment and yourself. Autocross is ALWAYS run at 10/10ths.

Doesn't mean the best autocrossers can lay down perfect runs the first time. The course needs to be learned and if it's a vehicle type that autocrosser isn't accustomed to, it can take time. You can generally get a feel for the vehicle's performance envelope pretty quickly (within 1-2 runs), but to get that inch-perfect feel for where every corner is exactly, takes a little time. For some that might just be 1 run, for others it could take dozens.

GSS138 · 02-19-2015, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03threefiftyz

Not really no...

...they'll adapt and put down top pax times in a few runs most likely.

This is true a national champ will figure out your car in 3 laps better than you will over the next year.

Tadpole · 02-19-2015, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j-rho

In an autocross setting, consideration of the equipment - and safety - aren't concerns the way they might be on the track. The whole "x/10ths" thing applies in a track setting as an indication of the level of risk you're willing to take in regards to your equipment and yourself. Autocross is ALWAYS run at 10/10ths.

Doesn't mean the best autocrossers can lay down perfect runs the first time. The course needs to be learned and if it's a vehicle type that autocrosser isn't accustomed to, it can take time. You can generally get a feel for the vehicle's performance envelope pretty quickly (within 1-2 runs), but to get that inch-perfect feel for where every corner is exactly, takes a little time. For some that might just be 1 run, for others it could take dozens.

Note to self...... turn traction control off and do not ask stupid question whether it should be on or not....This is how I dropped 4 seconds.....

Zauskycop · 02-19-2015, 07:07 PM

I hate when they do that...

Tracy Ramsey

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03threefiftyz

Not really no...

...they'll adapt and put down top pax times in a few runs most likely.

02-18-2015, 09:46 PM	#33 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	Your point about aptitude is spot on, that coupled with good instruction will always trump talent alone. Also, I agree talent can be developed...I just don't think it's about the platform. The (edit) GT Academy proves that...a Juke against a GTR, for reals! Boris would kick their butts straight up, he doesn't need paint balls!!! __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\| Last edited by Hotrodz; 02-18-2015 at 10:26 PM.*

02-18-2015, 10:43 PM	#35 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	I will bring it back to seat time given that the platform does not matter. The one thing all those which excel at the highest levels have in common in perfecting their craft is time spent perfecting their craft and that magic number is 10,000 hours if you want to be great!!! This include those who are gifted at an early age...probably more so because they obsessed. If you want a reference, check out a book called "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

02-19-2015, 07:02 AM	#36 (permalink)
03threefiftyz Track Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: MD Posts: 536 Drives: 03 350z 6mt Rep Power: 16	I probably haven't made 600 autocross runs in my life....I'm reasonable good, not great, at it... Hotrodz likes this.

02-19-2015, 08:50 AM	#37 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	The major thing that goes with being great is access and opportunity, that is why we do not see a lot of minorities in motor sports. You got to have the means to have suitable car and maintain it, then access to a track that is open to you more than just track day and you need help (instruction, track time, money for parts). Yup for any of us to be good is good enough. Because it takes time to be good many will quit after the first couple of sessions. It's really a simple equation for any of us...Time/Cost/Value! If the TCV does not add up...then I'm out no matter what the endeavor is. __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

02-19-2015, 02:56 PM	#39 (permalink)
j-rho Base Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: San Diego Posts: 154 Drives: 1967 Camaro Z28 Rep Power: 11	In an autocross setting, consideration of the equipment - and safety - aren't concerns the way they might be on the track. The whole "x/10ths" thing applies in a track setting as an indication of the level of risk you're willing to take in regards to your equipment and yourself. Autocross is ALWAYS run at 10/10ths. Doesn't mean the best autocrossers can lay down perfect runs the first time. The course needs to be learned and if it's a vehicle type that autocrosser isn't accustomed to, it can take time. You can generally get a feel for the vehicle's performance envelope pretty quickly (within 1-2 runs), but to get that inch-perfect feel for where every corner is exactly, takes a little time. For some that might just be 1 run, for others it could take dozens. JWillis72 likes this.

02-19-2015, 10:53 AM	#38 (permalink)
03threefiftyz Track Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: MD Posts: 536 Drives: 03 350z 6mt Rep Power: 16	I usually got 80-85% first run and full bore by the second...

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