RIP Dan Wheldon

semtex · 10-17-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

It's the same in the IRL. The difference in F1 is that the impacts are almost always significantly slower and they tend to hit soft barriers and 99% of the time any hard impacts are almost always single-car incidents. F1 just doesn't have the same wheel-to-wheel style competition as IRL or NASCAR, so you don't have as many significant incidents.

Another consideration is that a number of these cars hit the catch fencing, which is going to rip a car apart regardless of its construction. Especially at 200+ mph. If an F1 car or even a stock car would hit the fencing at that speed it would be a similar result.

Take a look at Robert Kubica's crash in Montreal back in 2007. The car hit an exposed wall and disintigrated, much like the indy cars. The only difference being that he just hit a wall and not the fence, which would have ripped his car to shreds.

The chain link fencing is the big difference here.

cossie1600 · 10-17-2011, 11:48 AM

las vegas is not a restrictor plate track, they can go almost full throttle the whole time because they have the banking.

the indycar is also an older chassis, i think from 2003 or 2004 off the top of my head

exposed wheel at 220 is not fun

with all that said, anyone know what part of the impact actually killed him? will power flew in the air too and i believe he is okay

shadoquad · 10-17-2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

las vegas is not a restrictor plate track, they can go almost full throttle the whole time because they have the banking.

the indycar is also an older chassis, i think from 2003 or 2004 off the top of my head

exposed wheel at 220 is not fun

with all that said, anyone know what part of the impact actually killed him? will power flew in the air too and i believe he is okay

From what I understand, it was from when his car impacted the wall/fence. But I could be wrong.

m4a1mustang · 10-17-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

las vegas is not a restrictor plate track, they can go almost full throttle the whole time because they have the banking.

the indycar is also an older chassis, i think from 2003 or 2004 off the top of my head

exposed wheel at 220 is not fun

with all that said, anyone know what part of the impact actually killed him? will power flew in the air too and i believe he is okay

Head injury. Word is something either penetrated the helmet or just hit hard enough to kill him. He hit the fence head first.

FWIW, I was comparing the style of racing there to the restrictor plate racing at Daytona and Talladega in NASCAR. But at least they are on longer/wider tracks and have fenders so they can make casual contact without all hell breaking loose.

cossie1600 · 10-17-2011, 01:33 PM

That sucks. Did he die on impact or at the hospital? The details are a little murky, I guess that's what happens when you are in a third tier sport

I hope they stop going to a lot of these banked ovals, let them go back on the road courses and design safer cars

WhiskeyHotel · 10-17-2011, 01:48 PM

God speed, Dan. We forget how risky racing really is because it is much safer than it used to be.

m4a1mustang · 10-17-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

That sucks. Did he die on impact or at the hospital? The details are a little murky, I guess that's what happens when you are in a third tier sport

I hope they stop going to a lot of these banked ovals, let them go back on the road courses and design safer cars

From what I've heard he was still alive when they got him to the medical center but he was 100% unresponsive and dying. I just hope it was painless for him.

They have the safer car design coming next year (see my earlier post on the first page). I think the oval racing is good, they just need to get the cars so they aren't running in those huge packs at those speeds. There are ways to change the cars to do that.

There are plenty of great ovals out there for them to race on, that the series has been leaving recently... New Hampshire, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Iowa... all really challenging ovals for those cars. Not just foot to the floor and pray like Las Vegas.

kenchan · 10-17-2011, 02:00 PM

so sad.

scottIN · 10-17-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

From what I've heard he was still alive when they got him to the medical center but he was 100% unresponsive and dying. I just hope it was painless for him.

They have the safer car design coming next year (see my earlier post on the first page). I think the oval racing is good, they just need to get the cars so they aren't running in those huge packs at those speeds. There are ways to change the cars to do that.

There are plenty of great ovals out there for them to race on, that the series has been leaving recently... New Hampshire, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Iowa... all really challenging ovals for those cars. Not just foot to the floor and pray like Las Vegas.

And in reality, the current cars are very safe already. Look at the wrecks we've seen over the last 10 years with the current car and how few serious injuries there have been. As Scott said on the broadcast: " I'd rather hit a wall at 225 mph in an IndyCar than 65 mph in a passenger car."

The new rear tire protectors will be interesting. A few years ago, most of karting went to full width bumpers. It's increased the bumping and on track contact tremendously. Granted, we're talking about 75 mph vs. 225 mph, but covering the rear wheel takes a lot of the risk out of the guy behind getting into you-there's no penalty for him bumping you vs. if he was hitting an open tire. Hopefully they thought about this in the design and made them so they'll (a) keep someone off your rear wheel, yet (b) make them delicate enough so as not to invite contact.

m4a1mustang · 10-17-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottIN

And in reality, the current cars are very safe already. Look at the wrecks we've seen over the last 10 years with the current car and how few serious injuries there have been. As Scott said on the broadcast: " I'd rather hit a wall at 225 mph in an IndyCar than 65 mph in a passenger car."

The new rear tire protectors will be interesting. A few years ago, most of karting went to full width bumpers. It's increased the bumping and on track contact tremendously. Granted, we're talking about 75 mph vs. 225 mph, but covering the rear wheel takes a lot of the risk out of the guy behind getting into you-there's no penalty for him bumping you vs. if he was hitting an open tire. Hopefully they thought about this in the design and made them so they'll (a) keep someone off your rear wheel, yet (b) make them delicate enough so as not to invite contact.

Definitely. This was just one of those deals where Dan hit the wall/fence at just the right angle that nothing would have saved him.

If we roll back safety advancements in racing 15 years or so we probably would have lost a handful of drivers this weekend. Not only at Vegas in the Indy Car race, but Jimmie Johnson's impact at Charlotte could very well have been fatal pre-HANS device.

We just take all of the safety advancements for granted until something like this happens.

Methodical4u · 10-23-2011, 03:05 AM

I started watching Indycars back in 1990 when it was still the PPG Indycar world series. The old Turbo V8's. They were so fast then and I never recall an accident like this even at speeds in the 230's and 240's. It seemed like back then more got hurt in NASCAR than in Indycars. There also weren't nearly as many drivers. Costs went up for the teams and the IRL was born, speeds went back up, and then they were limited again. I don't know what happened at this track, and I don't recall pole speed at indy this year, but I don't think even there it was 225.

I remember thinking that day the speed is just unacceptable for a track of that size.
If anyone recalls... years ago when the Indycars were still Turbo V8's they had to cancel a race at Texas because they were running laps of 236 or 238 mph AVERAGE! 22 second laps and 18 of those 22 seconds they were under G load ... 5 G's at the highest point. Drivers were complaining of "grey outs" and obviously it was deemed unsafe.

The catchfence has caused more injuries... I don't know what really can be done about them, but the cars just STOP and they just can't do that... they have to be able to hit things and come apart, not hit a fence that tangles the car up.. it's to much for the body to take.

Dan died of "blunt head trauma", but whether his helmet hit the wall or something came through the helment obviously no one knows.

This is one of many times that Indycar has f***ed things up and put lives at stake and this time it claimed one.

I read the article that Bernard? I belive that is his name, was put in charge to try to get more tv ratings for indycars. Of course for people who love this kind of racing we don't want to see it get lost, but i'd rather see these guys go to another type of racing and be alive and safer than making it more dangerous trying to excite fans.

I just don't know what to say about this death however... it doesn't matter I suppose because it's all over now. I was hoping and praying when I saw it that he would be ok... sadly he was not. I hope that his wife and children can get through this as easily as could be expected. I won't say RIP because there is life on the other side, so Dan, your family will see you there.

If anyone didn't know there is a website set up for donations to his wife and children.

scottIN · 10-24-2011, 08:04 AM

It wasn't the speed, the car, the drivers, the track that killed Dan- it was just bad luck. Had anything happened just a little bit differently - a second later even - or if he had rolled 1/4 less of a roll, he would have walked away like all the others. The only thing that might have saved him is if the catch fence was suspended away from the poles - which I think you'll see happen at some tracks. If you look at the few deaths that have occurred in IndyCar in the last decade, all but one has involved a head injury (Renna) - but all have been different - Whelden hit the post, Moore hit the wall, Dana hit another car (but nothing with his head), Krosnoff hit a light pole outside the fence. A closed canopy would not have withstood the impacts by Wheldon or Moore - maybe Knosnoff since it was a glancing blow - and wouldn't have mattered in Dana's crash.

There is no way to protect against every eventuality. We're so used to seeing a car hit the wall at 225 and the driver jump out unhurt that when something like this happens, everyone goes looking for answers. Crashing is a part of racing - you're on the limit- and sometimes you go over. It's part of the thrill for drivers - as well as fans. Sometimes the outcome just sucks. Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're unlucky.

Yesterday morning, we went to the Dan Wheldon Memorial Cup kart race. It was a tough day not to have him there. The race was won by current Indy Lights champion Josef Newgarden (who was doing the radio broadcast during the wreck) and Mark Dismore, Sr. - which is who Dan stayed with when he first came to the US. Kind of fitting that those two won.

Go-kart drivers race in memory of Wheldon - 13 WTHR

After that we went to the memorial in Indy. It was very nice.

Highway · 10-24-2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottIN

After that we went to the memorial in Indy. It was very nice.

I was out there as well and thought it was a nice tribute to a great driver. I was hoping that all of Conseco would be filled, but it was still a great turnout and shows the impact he had on so many lives. It's going to be hard to be out at the races next year.

Here's a pic I snagged of him a few years ago...

Going to miss him.

scottIN · 10-25-2011, 10:06 AM

Nice pic...

Here's one of my favorites. The radiator hose had come off in qualifying and Dan wasn't watching his temp. Got it to about 350* before he stuck it (normal is 140*). Dismore Jr. is explaining to him how bad he f'd the engine. The gaskets were just goo-it was hilarious.
For the race the next day I engraved a little sign we stuck on his kart that said 'Dan-check your temp!'

m4a1mustang · 10-25-2011, 10:07 AM

Very cool that you guys knew Dan personally.

10-25-2011, 10:07 AM	#30 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Very cool that you guys knew Dan personally. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

10-17-2011, 11:48 AM	#17 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	las vegas is not a restrictor plate track, they can go almost full throttle the whole time because they have the banking. the indycar is also an older chassis, i think from 2003 or 2004 off the top of my head exposed wheel at 220 is not fun with all that said, anyone know what part of the impact actually killed him? will power flew in the air too and i believe he is okay

10-17-2011, 01:33 PM	#20 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	That sucks. Did he die on impact or at the hospital? The details are a little murky, I guess that's what happens when you are in a third tier sport I hope they stop going to a lot of these banked ovals, let them go back on the road courses and design safer cars

10-17-2011, 01:48 PM	#21 (permalink)
WhiskeyHotel Track Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 530 Drives: 2015 GT-R PW Premium Rep Power: 17	God speed, Dan. We forget how risky racing really is because it is much safer than it used to be.

10-17-2011, 02:00 PM	#23 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	so sad.

10-23-2011, 03:05 AM	#26 (permalink)
Methodical4u A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,393 Drives: 11 370 6mt pw w/sp Rep Power: 16	I started watching Indycars back in 1990 when it was still the PPG Indycar world series. The old Turbo V8's. They were so fast then and I never recall an accident like this even at speeds in the 230's and 240's. It seemed like back then more got hurt in NASCAR than in Indycars. There also weren't nearly as many drivers. Costs went up for the teams and the IRL was born, speeds went back up, and then they were limited again. I don't know what happened at this track, and I don't recall pole speed at indy this year, but I don't think even there it was 225. I remember thinking that day the speed is just unacceptable for a track of that size. If anyone recalls... years ago when the Indycars were still Turbo V8's they had to cancel a race at Texas because they were running laps of 236 or 238 mph AVERAGE! 22 second laps and 18 of those 22 seconds they were under G load ... 5 G's at the highest point. Drivers were complaining of "grey outs" and obviously it was deemed unsafe. The catchfence has caused more injuries... I don't know what really can be done about them, but the cars just STOP and they just can't do that... they have to be able to hit things and come apart, not hit a fence that tangles the car up.. it's to much for the body to take. Dan died of "blunt head trauma", but whether his helmet hit the wall or something came through the helment obviously no one knows. This is one of many times that Indycar has f***ed things up and put lives at stake and this time it claimed one. I read the article that Bernard? I belive that is his name, was put in charge to try to get more tv ratings for indycars. Of course for people who love this kind of racing we don't want to see it get lost, but i'd rather see these guys go to another type of racing and be alive and safer than making it more dangerous trying to excite fans. I just don't know what to say about this death however... it doesn't matter I suppose because it's all over now. I was hoping and praying when I saw it that he would be ok... sadly he was not. I hope that his wife and children can get through this as easily as could be expected. I won't say RIP because there is life on the other side, so Dan, your family will see you there. If anyone didn't know there is a website set up for donations to his wife and children.

10-24-2011, 08:04 AM	#27 (permalink)
scottIN Track Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New Castle, Indiana Posts: 764 Drives: '12 370Z Rep Power: 55	It wasn't the speed, the car, the drivers, the track that killed Dan- it was just bad luck. Had anything happened just a little bit differently - a second later even - or if he had rolled 1/4 less of a roll, he would have walked away like all the others. The only thing that might have saved him is if the catch fence was suspended away from the poles - which I think you'll see happen at some tracks. If you look at the few deaths that have occurred in IndyCar in the last decade, all but one has involved a head injury (Renna) - but all have been different - Whelden hit the post, Moore hit the wall, Dana hit another car (but nothing with his head), Krosnoff hit a light pole outside the fence. A closed canopy would not have withstood the impacts by Wheldon or Moore - maybe Knosnoff since it was a glancing blow - and wouldn't have mattered in Dana's crash. There is no way to protect against every eventuality. We're so used to seeing a car hit the wall at 225 and the driver jump out unhurt that when something like this happens, everyone goes looking for answers. Crashing is a part of racing - you're on the limit- and sometimes you go over. It's part of the thrill for drivers - as well as fans. Sometimes the outcome just sucks. Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're unlucky. Yesterday morning, we went to the Dan Wheldon Memorial Cup kart race. It was a tough day not to have him there. The race was won by current Indy Lights champion Josef Newgarden (who was doing the radio broadcast during the wreck) and Mark Dismore, Sr. - which is who Dan stayed with when he first came to the US. Kind of fitting that those two won. Go-kart drivers race in memory of Wheldon - 13 WTHR After that we went to the memorial in Indy. It was very nice.

10-25-2011, 10:06 AM	#29 (permalink)
scottIN Track Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New Castle, Indiana Posts: 764 Drives: '12 370Z Rep Power: 55	Nice pic... Here's one of my favorites. The radiator hose had come off in qualifying and Dan wasn't watching his temp. Got it to about 350* before he stuck it (normal is 140*). Dismore Jr. is explaining to him how bad he f'd the engine. The gaskets were just goo-it was hilarious. For the race the next day I engraved a little sign we stuck on his kart that said 'Dan-check your temp!'