2021 Formula 1 Thread

[abm89]

Originally Posted by DLSTR

LH has fully 'peaked' as competitor. He should have retired last year.

You mean without defending his title?

You mean like Nico?

You mean like a bit-h?

LOL jokes aside, that was a weird incident in the pit lane considering the limiter was already on. I think he said he was messing with his wheel and wasn't paying attention. We'll see what happens in the race!

I prefer to have Max and Lewis on the track together. Races like Hungary 2019 show that they're just way better than the rest of the grid.

[Ventruck]

Max had a perfect race

RIP Norris
GJ Sainz

[abm89]

What a race!

Pour one out for Lando. With experience, he'll know to trust the team.



I'm glad Lewis got his 100th, and having to work for it made it even better. Haters can't say that one was gifted.

[DLSTR]

Crazy race. Norris learning lesson to listen to the team. LH also hesitated but complied and it paid off for victory. Max needed the rain to finish above 7th. Unpredictable with the rain! Tire strategy was key to have correct!!

[danegrey]

it was fun to watch and giving Max a lot of credit for the drive..
But as stated, tire strategy was key and when to pit for rain tires..

But it is very interesting how Hamilton has problems passing Ricciardo. Also when watching Max had some problems too.

Bottas save his day, by timing the switch to rain tires right, got up there nicely....

Turkey will be interesting....

[Spooler]

Originally Posted by Ventruck

Duck yeah those top 3 in QP!

LH just having a bad session. That pit hit and delay cost him getting to try for a proper lap. Might cost him the championship too because this otherwise was an up-for-grabs win for someone at his level.

Thinking Max just aims for a safe race. That power unit to pay dividends in the long run.

Let's see what it looks like at the end of the season. Got some racing left. It ain't over till it's over.

[Hotrodz]

It was a great race. Lando got caught out. Inexperience got him. Max drove a good mature race and Lewis and MB did what they had to for the win. Max could not pass Ricciardo no different than Lewis. The MB motor is too fast in a straight line. It would have been a hell of a battle if it would have stayed dry.

The fight is on and it appears the rules have done what was intended, level the field to a degree and making engine reliability real thing. Good stuff to come!

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[DLSTR]

Concern for Hamilton despite his landmark

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/58698229

Almost a side issue in the excitement was the realisation Hamilton had achieved yet another monumental landmark in his career. The 100th victory has been a long time coming since he took his 99th at Silverstone back in July. So long, Hamilton said, that he had begun to wonder if it ever would.

Now it has, he added: "It's a magical moment. I could only ever have dreamed of still being here and having this opportunity to win these races and get to drive against such phenomenal talent this late in my career."

That last remark was a reference to Norris, but also, among others, to Verstappen, who ended the day the with what had appeared for a long time a very unlikely second place.

The Red Bull driver started from the back. By lap 20, he had Hamilton within two seconds of him, such had been his impressive progress. Then he dropped back again with heavy tyre wear caused by all the traffic he was having to clear, and was even passed by Fernando Alonso's Alpine.

For a long time it looked as if Verstappen was going to have to make do with seventh place. But the rain gave him an opportunity and he, and Red Bull, grasped it with both hands.

Going into the race, Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said if Verstappen could make it back to fifth place "we would take that". That would have meant a loss of 15 points to Hamilton. As it was, Verstappen lost only seven, and although the Mercedes driver regained the championship lead, his rival is just two points behind.

"The race itself was not very easy because it was very difficult to pass again and once you got stuck it was very easy to damage your tyres," Verstappen said. "Luckily, with the rain it helped us to make that last jump.

"With the [grid] penalty we had, to only lose one spot basically is definitely not too bad. When I woke up this morning, I definitely didn't expect this result."

While this was a good outcome for Red Bull, Mercedes left Russia with concerns.

They had hoped to capitalise heavily on the last two races in Monza and Sochi, two tracks that historically have been very strong for them. In the end, though, Hamilton has achieved only a five-point swing in the championship.

Will they regret not maximising their opportunities at these races?

"Look," Hamilton said, "it's not only the two races. There's been plenty of races where we've not maximised, as a team, collectively, both drivers and everyone.

"But we're still in the fight and we can continue to improve. There are definitely things that we will try and do better moving forwards but we just won't give up, we'll just keep trying, keep pushing, remain hopeful."

The title race could hardly be any closer and, if anything, the run-in looks tougher for Hamilton than Verstappen.

While Red Bull got their engine-related grid penalty out of the way in Russia, Hamilton is likely to have one himself somewhere down the line. Mercedes won't say that for sure, but the chances of them making it to the end of the season with just the two used engines Hamilton has available are minimal.

Not only that, but of the remaining seven races, they expect to have pretty much no chance of beating Red Bull at one - Mexico - and the others are too close to call.

How, the two contenders were asked, did they rate their chances of winning the title?

"Undoubtedly it's going to be tough," Hamilton added. "For two thirds of the season so far they've had the edge.

"However, it's obviously been difficult, with all sorts of things, curve balls sent to both of us and our teams.

"There's still everything to play for in these next races. I think they've got a good set of circuits coming up and I anticipate it will just continue to be really close between us. Just got to be hopeful of some good races."

And Verstappen? "50-50," he said, matter-of-fact as ever. "Yes or no."

[DLSTR]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/me...ility/6677377/

Mercedes has "a few balls in the air" over F1 engine reliability
By: Jonathan Noble
Sep 28, 2021, 4:18 AM
Mercedes has admitted it is juggling some uncertainties over engine reliability as it heads into the final part of the 2021 Formula 1 campaign.

While Mercedes hopes to get through the rest of the season without needing a fresh power unit for championship leader Lewis Hamilton, there are growing concerns that it may have to do so and take a grid penalty.

The precarious situation the team is in was highlighted over the Russian Grand Prix weekend when a fresh engine Valtteri Bottas had fitted in Italy hit trouble and had to be removed.

That forced another power unit change, which dropped the Finn down the order on the same weekend that Williams driver Nicholas Latifi also took a grid drop.

While Mercedes is awaiting analysis of the Monza power unit to find out if it can be used again, team boss Toto Wolff conceded that things were a bit unsettled at the moment regarding its engine prospects.

As well as dealing with this season's plans, Mercedes needs to be committing to its 2022 project when engine specs are fully frozen.

"That's why we're having a few balls in the air, because you need to have the right balance between making sure that you really sort out all the gremlins that you have in the power unit, not only for this year but also for next year's power unit," he said.

"Definitely, we are in a phase of assessment on how to continue the season in terms of power units."

Speaking over the Russian GP weekend, Hamilton said he was mindful of not stressing his current engines too much in a bid to try to help the situation.


"Of course I lost one engine. Valtteri's had several," he said.

"And there's been others that Mercedes have seen up and down the paddock.

"So right now, I'm trying to treat my engines, the ones that we put in, with the absolute care when I'm driving, in terms of how much I'm gassing it, how much just revving the things, revving the nuts off it, really trying to minimise the laps that I do."

Wolff said that the Bottas Monza unit would be inspected before the next race in Turkey.

"We want to understand the engine's performance, and that has given us some question marks," he explained.

"At the moment we just take it one race weekend at the time and reassess the performance of the power unit, and then that's it."

Asked if engine reliability was now Mercedes' biggest concern in the title chase, Wolff said it was clear that the team could not afford a failure in a race.

"It's always reliability versus performance, it's always a fine line that you need to get right," he said.

"DNFing, obviously, is a no go for the championship and nobody, neither us nor our competitors, can afford a zero points race weekend."

[DLSTR]

Why Bottas faced impossible task to come through field in Sochi
By: Adam Cooper
Sep 29, 2021, 6:05 AM
The Mercedes Formula 1 team says that cooler conditions on race day in Russia made it harder for Valtteri Bottas to come through the field after taking a grid penalty.

Bottas took a new power unit for Sunday’s race, and moved back to 16th on the grid, ahead only of other drivers who had taken penalties – including Max Verstappen in 20th.

While the change was necessary after the Finn suffered an issue with his newest engine on Friday, it also opened up a tactical opportunity for him to cover and possible compromise Verstappen’s expected progress through the field.

However Bottas was overtaken by Verstappen after just six laps. While the Dutchman continued to gain positions, Bottas found himself stuck, and unable to repeat the charge to third place that he made in Monza.

Before the rain hit in the closing stages of the race Verstappen was running seventh, while Bottas was languishing in 14th. However an early change to intermediates saw him jump up to fifth at the flag.

“It was lot more difficult for me than I thought it would be, just to come through the field. I thought it was going to be like in Monza, but it was a lot more difficult,” he said.

“Like Max for example, he was able to progress much better than me. I don't know. Mainly what I struggled with was big understeer, and this was when I got close and I couldn't get to overtaking distance.”

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff, who was heard giving Bottas a hurry up on the radio, admitted that the team could have done more,

“I think we need to provide Valtteri with a car and power unit that can make him overtake,” he said. “You've seen that he's not lacking the ability because Monza was spectacular.

“It's just here for whatever reason, you have seen with Lewis at the beginning that our car was struggling with understeer, if you struggle with understeer, you're not getting close enough.

“And Lewis couldn't overtake the guys in front of him and the same happened to Valtteri. So I think we just need to know really understand why the car lacked competitiveness in traffic, and felt good in free air.”

Asked if he could have done more to hold back Verstappen he said: “He was just able to really come through the field.

“I need to have a look if there was more I could have done but I think he passed me pretty easily. I think he then overtook the cars ahead of me, and I had no chance.”

Mercedes trackside engineer director Andrew Shovlin explained that the understeer was encouraged by lower temperatures on race day, and that compromised Bottas’s chances of staying close to rivals ahead.

“Principally that the cooler conditions the front tyres were having a tough time,” he explained. “We were understeering a bit. Whereas on Friday, the rears were really the axle that was suffering the most, here it was the front.

“And when you can't follow in those last four corners, then you can't get close enough to overtake, but it was really down to car balance. I think the cooler conditions are actually making it more difficult, rather than easier.”

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/wh...sochi/6677871/

[danegrey]

its sad, that tires, place that big of role in how the cars perfom...

[ZCanadian]

Originally Posted by danegrey

its sad, that tires, place that big of role in how the cars perfom...

This has been the case for years, though.
And just as Red Bull were figuring them out, Fi / FIA / Pirelli go changing them (as of Silverstone this year). And guess which team got a boost from that? If you said Mercedes, you'd be correct.

Too many rules, not enough racing.

When there is a good tussle, it's fun though. Check out the Sochi Lap 10 fight between Leclerc and Vettel. Doubt it will embed here, but if you are on facebook follow the link. It's only a brief clip on the Aston Martin Racing fb page, but it is well edited to show in-car footage of some great corners. Strangely, it didn't result in a pileup on the gravel, either!

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=910850946190132

[abm89]

If my memory serves correctly, the tire compound was changed because of the blow-outs in Baku right? Red Bull has had the advantage in tire performance for most of the Pirelli era excluding the last two years when Mercedes finally figured out how to not kill the tires. Chopping the floor and restricting engine modes has done more in RB's favor than beefing up the compounds. Not to mention DAS, FRIC, and other Mercedes innovations that were banned in the turbo-hybrid era.

RB used to push the envelope with innovative tech, especially with the off-throttle blown diffusers, but now it seems they spend more time lobbying to pull other teams back (Not giving Ferrari a pass on their fuel flow shenanigans. That was clearly cheating). Merc has operated within the FIA rule-set, to the point of even having the FIA review their design for DAS and getting it approved. It still ended up getting banned in 2021 because "oh man, we didn't come up with that!"



While operating in the gray area is a usual thing in this sport, I have no sympathy for RB.

[ZCanadian]

Originally Posted by abm89

If my memory serves correctly, the tire compound was changed because of the blow-outs in Baku right? Red Bull has had the advantage in tire performance for most of the Pirelli era excluding the last two years when Mercedes finally figured out how to not kill the tires. Chopping the floor and restricting engine modes has done more in RB's favor than beefing up the compounds. Not to mention DAS, FRIC, and other Mercedes innovations that were banned in the turbo-hybrid era.

RB used to push the envelope with innovative tech, especially with the off-throttle blown diffusers, but now it seems they spend more time lobbying to pull other teams back (Not giving Ferrari a pass on their fuel flow shenanigans. That was clearly cheating). Merc has operated within the FIA rule-set, to the point of even having the FIA review their design for DAS and getting it approved. It still ended up getting banned in 2021 because "oh man, we didn't come up with that!"



While operating in the gray area is a usual thing in this sport, I have no sympathy for RB.

Our memories must be different.
I don't recall any constructors' championship winners in the hybrid turbo era except Mercedes. Mostly by over 250 points.

Two blowouts from Baku were the public reason for the compound change. One assumes that more analysis was done, but we're not privy to it. I don't recall any other unexplained tire failures this season before Silverstone. But maybe that was coincidence.

Everyone pushes the envelope. Be it RB trying to include a horsepower increase in an engine swap, to Ferrari doing whatever they were doing in 2018-2019, to DAS. And 1000 other initiatives. Some have been good for the sport, others not so much. I'm not sure if Mercedes lives within the rules, or is just better at hiding it. Clearly, they sold their 2019 car plans to Tracing Point - that was not a case of clever copying. Might have been Stoll's indiscretion, but a transaction takes two parties.

I'm not in anyone's camp particularly, and agree that when litigation / lobbying becomes more important than racing, then the sport suffers.

[Hotrodz]

The saying for all sports is if you ain't cheating you ain't winning! Calling it a competitive edge or whatever you want, but there isn't a team that doesn't look to exploit the rules anywhere they can. It is getting harder and harder to do so as the sport moves closer to spec car racing. Gone are the days of run what you brung!

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