2021 Formula 1 Thread

[abm89]

I could be easily swayed to rate Lando above George, but I would be confident that George can handle the pressure.

Being asked to deliver in the place of a 7x WDC as a substitute with very little experience with the W11, that's P R E S S U R E.

[Hotrodz]

Originally Posted by abm89

I could be easily swayed to rate Lando above George, but I would be confident that George can handle the pressure.

Being asked to deliver in the place of a 7x WDC as a substitute with very little experience with the W11, that's P R E S S U R E.

Not even close to having to perform against the 7 X WC. He really had nothing to lose, just don't tear up the car and place in the points. Ask Bottas and Nico about the pressure they face. Hell Nico called it quits after he got his Championship!

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[ZCanadian]

Originally Posted by abm89

I agree Norris is an all-star. This year proved it without a doubt. I'm still siding with George. I know it's one race, but to get in a Merc that does not fit with short notice, and wipe the floor with the rest of the grid 2 times through (because remember after the first Merc screw-up he nearly won again), that was unreal. One of the most impactful "top-team debuts" I've seen since Lewis went around the outside of Alonso in 2007 in Australia. Ocon is pretty solid, but I'd have a hard time ranking him over Gasly to be honest. I guess I would rank the under-25 crowd as follows:

Max - WDC title fight against Lewis. Speaks for itself

Charles - puts the Ferrari where it shouldn't be, is also a proven race winner. limited by Ferrari's incompetence.

*Mercedes George - if he was shorter and had a purple/black helmet, no one would have thought Lewis was absent, but the key difference is experience. Lewis calls shots from the car often regarding strategy and Merc is more likely to humor him vs George. That's understandable.

Norris - Extremely consistent, becoming that guy to pick up the podium should shenanigans happen up front

Gasly - more reliable now and a good racer. the car is inconsistent though.

*Williams George - one of the best qualifiers I've seen. Finally got points but still had some key mistakes in other races. I suspect is him trying too hard sometimes.

Ocon - inconsistent performances in qualifying, but he's trending upwards after the win. His time with Alonso (the old man mentor type) is going to be invaluable.

Gio - improved noticeably but is that due to actual improvement, or Kimi's regression?

Latifi - better than most people give him credit for. doesn't make mistakes.

Mick - Big upside, watching closely

Yuki - Needs more experience. The hot-headedness doesn't bother me, but he needs to learn to channel it. The greats, especially Lewis, are good at turning that energy into blistering pace.

Maz - yeah.....

I think you about nailed this on the head. 100% my list as well.

[ZCanadian]

Originally Posted by danegrey

Laughing a bit at RB and Ferrari and the fact they want relief because of race crashes and engine damages... Funny that these big dollar teams cannot do what a HAAS, Williams, and other back of the grid teams deal with all the time....

They want cost control and then if something happens well, it's not our fault....

Keep in mind that the cost cap is $145 million this year.

in 2019, the top three teams combined spent a total of almost 10 times that!
Merc $484 million
Ferrari $463 million
RBR (not including Torro Rosso) $445 million

That's part of what has driven performance in the past.
Now, they are developing a whole new car and racing an extended season on not much more than what Williams spent two years ago (and if you recall, they basically did nothing with the car at all in 2019 and brought the same car out in 2020. Their results were indicative of that (lack of) investment. The other low spenders were Sauber, Toro Rosso (who would have benefitted from the RBR investment), and Haas.

I'm not sure that adding the cost cap is going to get us better cars. It will be more "sustainable" in that teams will be less likely to drop out under financial pressures. Perhaps the cap will also give us more evenly matched racing, but then so would turning it into a spec series. Formula 1 is so much better by NOT being one of those. Part of that is the innovation. That costs money.

I fear that the cap is going to do the opposite of what it was meant to do, and make the sport more boring. Expect the results at the outset of the season to be indicative of the whole year, as teams struggle with being able to bring in true improvements to the car. Engines are frozen too, and aero is limited in 2022. What was it I was saying about a spec series. This might just be the next worse thing.

[abm89]

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

Not even close to having to perform against the 7 X WC. He really had nothing to lose, just don't tear up the car and place in the points. Ask Bottas and Nico about the pressure they face. Hell Nico called it quits after he got his Championship!

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I would argue Lewis being George's teammate is irrelevant to pressure if he is starting the season with the team. You can't think "oh man going against one of the GOATs" That's how you end up like Bottas. Lewis is just another driver George has to beat at the end of the day. If anything, that stand-in in Bahrain was his biggest test yet. A live audtion for the seat in a world championship round. If he failed to deliver in any way, he would likely not be up for discussion when it comes to the 2022 seat. Bottas would likely keep it, or they would look at poaching Lando, IMO.

Nico vs Lewis was personal. It's my opinion to never draw any conclusions from that battle because personal beef is something no one outside of the team has insight into. Objectively, Nico is possibly the best teammate Lewis ever had based on pure pace and competitiveness. Nico was never lapped by his teammate with a fully functional car (ahem, looking at you Bottas). I think he will go down as the most underrated WDC ever.

[abm89]

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

I fear that the cap is going to do the opposite of what it was meant to do, and make the sport more boring. Expect the results at the outset of the season to be indicative of the whole year, as teams struggle with being able to bring in true improvements to the car. Engines are frozen too, and aero is limited in 2022. What was it I was saying about a spec series. This might just be the next worse thing.

I think it can work if the 2022 philosophy does what it is supposed to do, keep the racing a little closer. If they nail it, they should refrain from major regulation changes with the aero. Ideally, they should ditch the MGU-H and run the cars on bio-fuels (which i hear is a real possibility anyway). They should also de-restrict the engine layout, so long as it meets a displacement requirement.

[Hotrodz]

Originally Posted by abm89

I would argue Lewis being George's teammate is irrelevant to pressure if he is starting the season with the team. You can't think "oh man going against one of the GOATs" That's how you end up like Bottas. Lewis is just another driver George has to beat at the end of the day. If anything, that stand-in in Bahrain was his biggest test yet. A live audtion for the seat in a world championship round. If he failed to deliver in any way, he would likely not be up for discussion when it comes to the 2022 seat. Bottas would likely keep it, or they would look at poaching Lando, IMO.

Nico vs Lewis was personal. It's my opinion to never draw any conclusions from that battle because personal beef is something no one outside of the team has insight into. Objectively, Nico is possibly the best teammate Lewis ever had based on pure pace and competitiveness. Nico was never lapped by his teammate with a fully functional car (ahem, looking at you Bottas). I think he will go down as the most underrated WDC ever.

I will simply agree to disagree. I don't know if you ever competed any sports beyond high school. I played against some of the best ball players of my time. I faced many professional pitchers and went two for three off Hall of Famer Bert Blyleven. I out hit and out fielded many that went to the pros. It still wasn't enough to get me their and the most pressure I had was to keep my position from some young hopeful or veteran that wanted my position or theirs back. The biggest battle is with your teammates the other pressure is about how one stacks up against the rest. If I am wrong why is it the media always focus on how the teammates stack up against each other.

I will agree that Bottas has not got his due being paired with Massa and then Hamilton. He deserves a seat next year.

[Hotrodz]

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Keep in mind that the cost cap is $145 million this year.

in 2019, the top three teams combined spent a total of almost 10 times that!
Merc $484 million
Ferrari $463 million
RBR (not including Torro Rosso) $445 million

That's part of what has driven performance in the past.
Now, they are developing a whole new car and racing an extended season on not much more than what Williams spent two years ago (and if you recall, they basically did nothing with the car at all in 2019 and brought the same car out in 2020. Their results were indicative of that (lack of) investment. The other low spenders were Sauber, Toro Rosso (who would have benefitted from the RBR investment), and Haas.

I'm not sure that adding the cost cap is going to get us better cars. It will be more "sustainable" in that teams will be less likely to drop out under financial pressures. Perhaps the cap will also give us more evenly matched racing, but then so would turning it into a spec series. Formula 1 is so much better by NOT being one of those. Part of that is the innovation. That costs money.

I fear that the cap is going to do the opposite of what it was meant to do, and make the sport more boring. Expect the results at the outset of the season to be indicative of the whole year, as teams struggle with being able to bring in true improvements to the car. Engines are frozen too, and aero is limited in 2022. What was it I was saying about a spec series. This might just be the next worse thing.

I don't know what to think as it is the last of racing about run what you brung. It seem that gas or gas/hybreds is fading and electric cars is the new development of the future. All I know is I don't like it. Bring back the v10!

[danegrey]

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Keep in mind that the cost cap is $145 million this year.

in 2019, the top three teams combined spent a total of almost 10 times that!
Merc $484 million
Ferrari $463 million
RBR (not including Torro Rosso) $445 million

That's part of what has driven performance in the past.
Now, they are developing a whole new car and racing an extended season on not much more than what Williams spent two years ago (and if you recall, they basically did nothing with the car at all in 2019 and brought the same car out in 2020. Their results were indicative of that (lack of) investment. The other low spenders were Sauber, Toro Rosso (who would have benefitted from the RBR investment), and Haas.

I'm not sure that adding the cost cap is going to get us better cars. It will be more "sustainable" in that teams will be less likely to drop out under financial pressures. Perhaps the cap will also give us more evenly matched racing, but then so would turning it into a spec series. Formula 1 is so much better by NOT being one of those. Part of that is the innovation. That costs money.

I fear that the cap is going to do the opposite of what it was meant to do, and make the sport more boring. Expect the results at the outset of the season to be indicative of the whole year, as teams struggle with being able to bring in true improvements to the car. Engines are frozen too, and aero is limited in 2022. What was it I was saying about a spec series. This might just be the next worse thing.

good comments and reviews, but don't forget that this was all agreed too by the teams. You may be right, it might turn into a spec series, just have to wait and see what happens....

[DLSTR]

Russell has shown speed. He shown an ability to crack when it counted as well. He has matured but his crash, passing Bottas on the outside of the ONLY dry line was pathetic. His excuse and adoption of the sad, tin foil hat theory later that day, his only care was for himself after the crash, walks up to Bottas to berate him rather than checking on his condition was absurd. He got the finger from Bottas and well deserved. Tossed points last year behind the safety car in Italy. Tossed points hitting Bottas.

All the focus of the Bahrain race is a bit much. He jumped in the fastest most well balanced car made in the last 10 years and was fast. Great. On a Mickey Mouse almost oval. He should have been fast.

Toto had to significantly reset his compass after his idiotic episode with Bottas. He had to make a major public apology to his team Williams and Mercedes overall. Sorry but Norris the far savvier operator, proven speed and results, getting more out of a car than he should or it should give. George does well in qualy but does not cover off completely Latifi as well in the races. He is called Mr Saturday. Sunday is what matters more.

He will do well in the future but his current past is mixed and less than what it should be. He carries an entitled attitude and reminds me very much of Seb. No one knows what his real capability is in the team as leader. He certainly does not appear to lead Williams overall. He is there driving, well at times but has the team centered around him overall. I dont feel a sense of that at all.

Norris is humble and giving. George seems like a taker because, well Im fast Im a Mercedes driver program star etc. Norris gets it done, no drama, and literally in 2 years is leading the Mclaren down a road to improvement. George has show zero of that overall. Some good performances but not a leader. Ricci has no answer to Norris.

[Hotrodz]

^^^^Agreed! And well said!

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[abm89]

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

I will simply agree to disagree. I don't know if you ever competed any sports beyond high school. I played against some of the best ball players of my time. I faced many professional pitchers and went two for three off Hall of Famer Bert Blyleven. I out hit and out fielded many that went to the pros. It still wasn't enough to get me their and the most pressure I had was to keep my position from some young hopeful or veteran that wanted my position or theirs back. The biggest battle is with your teammates the other pressure is about how one stacks up against the rest. If I am wrong why is it the media always focus on how the teammates stack up against each other.

I will agree that Bottas has not got his due being paired with Massa and then Hamilton. He deserves a seat next year.

I didn't do team sports, but I competed in some martial arts events. Pressure is only there if you allow it to be.

[abm89]

However I do concede the fact that not everyone is the same.

[Hotrodz]

Originally Posted by abm89

I didn't do team sports, but I competed in some martial arts events. Pressure is only there if you allow it to be.

LOL, much easier said than done! Pressure is about mental toughness and being able to calm and make good decisions in the heat battle. Whether in the battle or sustaining ones level performance over time. You can see the pressure has gotten to George, Max and others through their comments and out burst.

Yes, we all are different and what we experience in life has an impact on that. People that have had to deal with trauma and overcome obstacles early in life tend to perform better under pressure because of their experiences. I don't know but I don't think George or Max has had to deal with much adversity in their short lives, hence the praise from Lewis about Ocon. The kid has stayed in the fight regardless if his circumstance. Many would have folded and went on to other things. Not him and he is an F1 winner and not many can claim that achievement.

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[Spooler]

WOW, you guys are going at it in here. LOL

Pressure is good. It will make you grow as a person and in your mental toughness. The really good ones feed off that pressure to take it to the next level. You can see it in Hamilton. You could see it in Larry Bird. You could see it in Michael Jordan. All the good ones consume pressure like it is candy.