2021 Formula 1 Thread

[God-Speed]

Originally Posted by DLSTR

Always the tires -

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/86443...pressures.html

[DLSTR]

Originally Posted by God-Speed

Red Bull possibly played with tyre pressure, FIA never checks during races'

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/86512...ing-races.html

Saturday there were rumours that Red Bull Racing were to blame for the crash of Max Verstappen at the Baku City Circuit. The Austrian team would have played with the tyre pressures and that would have cost the Dutchman his head. The Italian branch of Motorsport.com confirms the rumours that tyre pressure can be manipulated.

Since the British Grand Prix in 2013, Pirelli has added a rule to the regulations that requires F1 teams to observe a minimum tire pressure at the start of the race. The level of tyre pressure is determined by Pirelli, depending on the circuit.

Before the start of the race on Sunday, the FIA will randomly check if the teams meet this requirement. The officials of the international motorsport federation are also allowed to visit the garages of the teams during the Grands Prix to check if the tyre pressures of the other available sets of tyres comply with the regulations.

Red Bull themselves at fault?
However, according to the aforementioned medium, the problem is that this check is currently carried out very rarely, so little in fact that there are those in the paddock who claim they have never experienced it. It could be a signal that teams are going below the minimum tire pressure in order to get more grip. It is possible that Red Bull Racing (with Verstappen) and Aston Martin (with Lance Stroll) have been fiddling with this and are to blame for the crashes.


Max Verstappen was very clear on Ziggo Sport after his DNF in Azerbaijan. He didn't have much faith in an investigation of Pirelli: "I already know the outcome. That's hard to accept. But it will have to do with 'debris' again." Pirelli and the FIA are expected to release the final investigation report within 48 hours.

[Hotrodz]

DRAMA!!!

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[ZCanadian]

On a street circuit like Monaco, or maybe (but less so with it's one eternally long straight) Baku, perhaps the idea has some merit. And especially on these types of courses, where teams have reason to expect a free pit stop due to safety car at some point, as lower inflation will lead to premature failure, guaranteed.

But now that we are back to proper race circuits, the FIA can check all the like but I doubt anyone would have monkied around with dropping pressures anyway. You might gain a fraction in the corners, but you'll lose out on straight line speed and that's where most of the passing opportunities are going to be. And you'll never make up the 25 seconds or so, for an extra stop to cover off premature degradation.

[Hotrodz]

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

On a street circuit like Monaco, or maybe (but less so with it's one eternally long straight) Baku, perhaps the idea has some merit. And especially on these types of courses, where teams have reason to expect a free pit stop due to safety car at some point, as lower inflation will lead to premature failure, guaranteed.

But now that we are back to proper race circuits, the FIA can check all the like but I doubt anyone would have monkied around with dropping pressures anyway. You might gain a fraction in the corners, but you'll lose out on straight line speed and that's where most of the passing opportunities are going to be. And you'll never make up the 25 seconds or so, for an extra stop to cover off premature degradation.

Agreed! Really doesn't make much since as it happened to two different teams and on the same tire or position with similar laps on the tire. Two is a pattern! RB had nothing to gain as they were fast and the same for AM. Both teams had nothing to gain by "cheating" in that fashion.

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[DLSTR]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ty...eport/6570971/


Tyre pressures in the spotlight as F1 awaits Pirelli Baku report
By:
Jonathan Noble
Jun 15, 2021, 6:08 AM
Scrutiny over Formula 1 teams playing around with tyre pressures looks almost certain to increase in the wake of the failures that marred the Azerbaijan Grand Prix


While F1 is still waiting for an official answer from Pirelli and the FIA over the causes of the blowouts that put Lance Stroll and Max Verstappen out of the Baku race, the topic of tyre pressures and teams trying to get around the limits has become a talking point again.

F1 teams have long known that there is a pace advantage from running tyres at low pressures, so there has always been an incentive to try to find ways to keep the Psi down.

However, low pressures can put tyres under incredible structural strain as the construction deforms more under load, and too much of that can trigger problems.

Throw together a combination of the current high downforce, super heavy F1 cars with ultra low tyre pressures - plus potentially teams taking liberties - and that can be a recipe for trouble.

One way for Pirelli to head off the risk of such threats has been to increase the minimum starting pressures that teams have for the tyres, but teams don't like that because its means lost lap time.

Teams know that the best way to extract performance is to be bang on the limit when the tyre pressures are measured, and then be under it when the car is out on track and needing to perform.

The minimum starting pressure requirement was famously thrust in to the spotlight when Mercedes was investigated after its victory in the 2015 Italian Grand Prix when Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg's tyres were found to be under the 19.5PSi limit when they were measured before the start.


In the end the team was cleared, with the FIA satisfied the tyres had been at the correct pressure when first fitted to the cars, but the Psi had dropped as the tyres cooled on the grid.

What that brief controversy did highlight, however, was how much tyre pressures can move around from when tyres are first fitted to the cars to when they are actually running on track.

All the checks and procedures that have been in place since firm guidelines were laid down in 2015 have been about tyres when they are first fitted.

So the checks take place just before a car leaves the garage, or shortly before the start of the race on the grid.

That, of course, leaves an opportunity for teams that can reduce the pressure after such checks have taken place to potentially gain an advantage.

Plus, not every tyre can be checked when first fitted to the car, especially when it comes to those tyres put on during pitstops in the race.

One tactic used in the past was for teams to use excessive temperatures with their tyre blankets, so they would end up heating the air inside the tyre. The hot air would expand and increase the pressure for when the measurement was taken, prior to the tyre then being allowed to cool and the pressure dropping for when the tyre was needed.

This tactic prompted the FIA to step in and put in place a maximum tyre temperature allowance for the blankets to ensure teams weren't tricking the system this way.

But, F1 teams are immensely clever and it appears that, with clear performance on the table from being able to lower tyre pressures after the checks, they may have found other ways to get below the limits.

And the likelihood is that the whole grid is doing it, not just one or two of them, as F1 teams do not spend hundreds of millions of pounds a year to leave performance gains on the table.

As Hamilton remarked in the wake of the Monza 2015 controversy: "We run to the bare minimum, all the time it is above but as low as we can go. If it's 20, we'll be 20.1 or 20.001, whatever. It's what F1 is all about."
T

The difficulty in judging what teams are up to right now is that the teams are in charge themselves of all the data regarding their tyre pressures.

So, if they are getting around the regulations by getting the tyres under the minimum starting pressures, there is no way for the FIA and Pirelli to have reliable independent data to verify it.

There is also nothing in the regulations stopping them doing it, as the current rules only stipulate the minimum starting pressures, not minimum running pressures.

Interestingly, for 2022, F1 is introducing mandatory standard tyre pressure and temperature monitoring devices that will give the FIA and Pirelli the exact insight they need to better judge the situations.

In a recent amendment to the 2022 technical regulations, Article 10.7.3 states: "All cars must be fitted with tyre pressure and temperature monitoring sensors which have been manufactured by an FIA designated supplier to a specification determined by the FIA.

"Wheel rims and tyre pressure and temperature sensors should be marked according to the corner colouring and labelling scheme defined in the Appendix to the Technical and Sporting Regulations."

While such a move should bring some clarity to what teams are doing, in the short term it is unclear what the response will be.

Next month, F1 is returning to the British Grand Prix, with the high-speed Silverstone swoops known to be one of the most punishing tracks of the year for Pirelli tyres.

A repeat of last year's British GP dramas, where a number of tyres failed in the closing stages, will be something that Pirelli will want to avoid.

So one option may well be for Pirelli to have to play things safe and increase the minimum starting pressures far beyond what is ideal, knowing full well that teams will likely try to work their way around it.

Alternatively, the events of Baku may well be enough for the FIA to increase its checking of what teams are up to on grand prix weekends – with a greater scrutiny on all the tyre sets being used.

[ZCanadian]

Originally Posted by DLSTR

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ty...eport/6570971/


...
What that brief controversy did highlight, however, was how much tyre pressures can move around from when tyres are first fitted to the cars to when they are actually running on track.
....

Because nobody was smart enough to figure this out before Baku??? ReallY???
C'mon, when I run open lapping at half these speeds, I get tremendous variations in pressure. Seems that this would be pretty obvious to anyone in the sport or even a casual observer.

Given that almost every Toyota can give TPMS data showing real time pressure AND temperature at each corner, is it reasonable to assume that teams are not tracking this data? So why not say that the minimum pressure is "X" PSI / BAR at Y Degrees C? Unless it leaks out under extreme heat and pressure, it is going to return to that pressure whenever the air is that temperature. And for a group that prides itself on engineering, it isn't likely too big of a stretch to figure out what the pressure curve on these tires (likely varies by compound) would be at any given temperature. Wheel size and tires are all regulated, and tire construction is known.

Sounds like a load of horse pucks to me!

[Hotrodz]

This one of those things that happen in all sports. Teams will take chances on the fringes to gain an advantage and there consequences to doing so and if everyone is doing it is it really a problem? Both RB and AM suffered their fate if they indeed ran low tire pressures. The only real issue is safety of the driver and that is on the team and the driver. It is a lot to do about nothing if everyone as they say is doing it!

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[DLSTR]

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Because nobody was smart enough to figure this out before Baku??? ReallY???
C'mon, when I run open lapping at half these speeds, I get tremendous variations in pressure. Seems that this would be pretty obvious to anyone in the sport or even a casual observer.

Given that almost every Toyota can give TPMS data showing real time pressure AND temperature at each corner, is it reasonable to assume that teams are not tracking this data? So why not say that the minimum pressure is "X" PSI / BAR at Y Degrees C? Unless it leaks out under extreme heat and pressure, it is going to return to that pressure whenever the air is that temperature. And for a group that prides itself on engineering, it isn't likely too big of a stretch to figure out what the pressure curve on these tires (likely varies by compound) would be at any given temperature. Wheel size and tires are all regulated, and tire construction is known.

Sounds like a load of horse pucks to me!

Small old wheels. No sensors and CPU. Save weight. They, the teams probably fought to NOT have this installed. The FIA gave up until the new regs and cars in 2022.

[DLSTR]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/th...p-out/6574262/

The F1 tyre tricks that the new clampdown will stamp out
By: Jonathan Noble
Jun 16, 2021, 6:51 AM
Pirelli’s carefully worded statement on Baku’s Formula 1 tyre failures may not have explicitly blamed teams, but the strength of the FIA’s response tells us all we need to know.

For while Pirelli only went as far as talking about generic ‘running conditions’ triggering the blowouts for Red Bull and Aston Martin, the swift move from the FIA to impose a raft of new measures is a clear indication of the areas it suspects teams could be operating in.

In the lengthy updated FIA Technical Directive that was issued to teams on Tuesday, in response to what happened in Baku, it is obvious that tyre pressures are at the centre of this most recent storm.

Sure there are no suggestions Red Bull nor Aston Martin had been doing anything illegal, but the manner of what is changing from this weekend’s French Grand Prix offers us clues about what may have been going on.

Red Bull may have been correct in stating that it has followed the rules and Pirelli’s guidance to the letter, but part of the problem is way that the current situation those parameters are judged left some grey areas.

With the only requirement being for a limit on tyre temperatures in the blankets, and starting pressures when tyres are still fitted, that still left room for teams to do things once those checks had taken place.

If a team could drop pressures below the recommendation by the time the car left the pits, and then managed to find a way of them not rising too much out on track as the tyres warmed up, it could fully comply with the rules and yet not be at a pressure level where Pirelli would normally expect them to be.

So in looking at what the FIA is bringing in for the French GP, and new limits for teams, we can perhaps get some clues about what tricks may have been used for performance gains.

And irrespective of what teams may or may not be doing, the new cold pressure checks on tyres after they have been removed from cars should clampdown on anyone trying to get around the system by running lower than Pirelli intended.

Here then we look at four theories on what teams could have been doing that will no longer be allowed.



Removing the blankets early

The most obvious way for teams to play around with tyre pressures is with temperature – for if the air in the tyre is heated up, then it will expand to increase the pressure to pass the pre-running checks.

Then, if it is left to cool, the air will contract and the tyre pressure drop down to a level that is better for car performance.

Many years ago, the FIA moved to stop teams doing this through dramatically heating up their tyres, which is why there is now a limit on how hot the tyres can be heated in the blankets.

However, that has not stopped some teams still trying to take things to the limit in terms of heating the tyres – and then cooling them as much as they can prior to the cars running.

One way to do this would be to remove tyre blankets from cars in the garage well before they intend to go out on track.

This is something that Lewis Hamilton highlighted in Monaco when he told Sky F1 that Red Bull had done this in Spain.

“If you look at the last race (in Spain), for example, we were supposed to all keep our (tyre) blankets on in qualifying,” he said.

“Red Bull were allowed to take theirs off, and no-one else is allowed to. So I think we just need to make sure it’s consistent for everyone.”

From the French GP, such activity will no longer be permitted with teams told that the removal of blankets prior to the cars getting ready to leave the garage will be interpreted as them trying to cool tyres.

The FIA TD states: “The removal of any blankets when the tyres are not yet fitted on the car, their untimely removal with the tyres fitted on the car, or delaying the release of a car from the garage for no valid reason with the tyre blankets removed will be considered as a way to cool the tyres.

“Teams will need to justify a valid reason for any delayed release of over 30 seconds, or frequent delayed release.”



Using leeway
While teams have always had to use tyre pressure gauges calibrated by Pirelli and sealed by the FIA, that in theory has not stopped them making use of any leeway in the readings to push the tyre pressure margins.

Small variances can creep in to the system when checks are made, and previously teams knew that if there was any ‘small discrepancy’ with a set of tyres they would be allowed to inflate them – so there was nothing to lose by pushing the limits.

Now though the FIA is getting tougher and will not allow any additional tolerances that result in the tyres being outside the prescriptions.

“It is the teams' responsibility to add any additional margin to operate tyres within the prescription limits,” it said.

Now any team found to be outside the limits will still be asked to inflate the tyres more, but cases of large and/or systematic discrepancies will be reported to the stewards.


Overheating the blankets
The teams’ abilities to use temperatures to control the pressures means that tyre blankets are an obvious way of managing the situation.

The FIA TD also restricts teams using the blankets for too long – or playing innocent over a blanket control reading that gives a lower temperature than the tyre is at.

From France, teams will no longer be allowed to heat the tyres for a lengthy period of time. They can now only be heated when they are intended to be used in the following session.

Furthermore, teams will not be allowed to keep their tyre blankets running overnight and above temperature, so that when tyres are fitted in the morning they are already roasting away better than teams who have just switched theirs on.

The FIA says tyre blankets must now be physically disconnected except for a period allowed by Pirelli.

Further, they must ‘make sure temperature displays of all control boxes in use are switched on and easily visible.”



Using special gases
Another way for tyre pressure to be changed is through the use of special gases or their moisture content as they are inflated.

This could potentially change the way that temperature affects the expansion of the air inside the tyre. Now, such behaviour will no longer be allowed.

The FIA noted said that: “Any modification to the inflation gas composition or moisture content aimed at reducing on-circuit pressures is not permitted.

“This includes increasing as well as reducing inflation gas moisture content, and the addition of any solid, liquid or gas not permitted for this use in the Technical Regulations.”

The FIA also reminded teams that they must follow Article 12.5.1 of the technical regulations at all times which states that: “any modification or treatment such as cutting, grooving, the application of solvents or softeners is prohibited.”

[DLSTR]

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...at-paul-ricard

SKY F1 preview

[God-Speed]

Get Rid of the Tire Warmers. Problem Solved for all teams.

[Hotrodz]

Originally Posted by God-Speed

Get Rid of the Tire Warmers. Problem Solved for all teams.

Agreed!

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[Ventruck]

Today was basically....uhh, dang Mercedes

Credit to RB. though. Both drivers looking good.

[ZontheRocks]

Pretty much knew what the top of the grid would like like at the end (though great dramas during final laps), but greatly disappointed in Charlie’s race today. Did not think he would be out of the points, let alone in 17th. Tsk tsk.