2020 Formula 1 thread

[axmea?]

Rain is the equalizer but today is another Hamil-day.

[Zoren 370]

Originally Posted by axmea?

Rain is the equalizer but today is another Hamil-day.

Axmea can you beat Hamilton just to make it exciting!

Even on your virtual 3D world

[axmea?]

I stink in the virtual world my friend.

[danegrey]

Well now HAAS is under review because of Driver Aids during the formation lap ???????
And of course Renault protested Racing Point..... Too many damn rules, Hey Renault someone out smarted you....

[Zoren 370]

Originally Posted by axmea?

I stink in the virtual world my friend.

I sent you a video at FB messenger hope you like it.

I wish you can learn to do that...its more like CGI

[DLSTR]

Originally Posted by danegrey

Well now HAAS is under review because of Driver Aids during the formation lap ???????
And of course Renault protested Racing Point..... Too many damn rules, Hey Renault someone out smarted you....

Clone Point took the easy way out and copied a car. Sorry but I find that cheap and not creative. Protest away. Why bother building a car. Just clone up the Mercedes and we have spec series F1 as all Mercedes lol.

Fk Stroll, his kid and money. Zero respect.

[danegrey]

Originally Posted by DLSTR

Clone Point took the easy way out and copied a car. Sorry but I find that cheap and not creative. Protest away. Why bother building a car. Just clone up the Mercedes and we have spec series F1 as all Mercedes lol.

Fk Stroll, his kid and money. Zero respect.

Ok agree to disagree, with as much $$ it takes and with as much copying of various different parts of the car, I see your point, nobody has tried copying a whole car.... Maybe with the new concord agreement the $$ will be spread differently...

Understand your comment about Stroll, but would racing point be here if it was not for his money, Williams and McLaren in trouble and HAAS a question mark...

[DLSTR]

Originally Posted by danegrey

Ok agree to disagree, with as much $$ it takes and with as much copying of various different parts of the car, I see your point, nobody has tried copying a whole car.... Maybe with the new concord agreement the $$ will be spread differently...

Understand your comment about Stroll, but would racing point be here if it was not for his money, Williams and McLaren in trouble and HAAS a question mark...

Happy to see Clone Point race a car they design. They did not design this car. They used very very detailed photo''s and analysis to make this clone. It was apparent in testing to all teams what they had done. I hope they lose the protest to Renault.

So next year they wait and copy the new Mercedes in 22?? No. Wrong. Build a car and race it. Thats the spirit, what is supposedly the spirit of F1. What little is left. Fk him. No respect. Stroll Jr has about as much race craft as a flea. Without money he never see's F1. Would you hire him lol?? Pay drivers have existed in F1, I know this. He's been losing to every team mate he has had. If Vettel has any self respect left, he should never go near Clone Point. To leave Ferrari and go to that team shows how weak his ego is. He has been abused by 2 Jr drivers already lol. Ricci and Charles. Move on Seb you blew it.

[axmea?]

I loved Toto's comment about how p'd off they were at Ferrari for their fuel cheat that they used it as energy and motivation to build a more superior car this yr.

As for the pink mercs, the team does not seem to have the race craft needed to take podium.

[ZCanadian]

I'm actually stoked for Tracing Point. But I also suspect that Mercedes helped them out on the deal, or they would be the ones protesting. You can copy all you like, but there is a lot of the car that we'll never see (inside ducting, underside of floor) that has significant aero. If you don't understand the "why", then just imitating the shape is only part of the battle. You have to admit, RP nailed it.

To me, this was as brilliant a business move as it was a technical feat, to make a car based on a proven a winner rather than blow a fortune to design one for only one (2020) season (or pull a Williams and just show up with the same car, new livery). We suddenly have a team to take the midfield to the leaders. And, out of sheer luck, Covid 19 has now frozen development for most of the car until the end of next year, so Lawrence Stroll got two years for the price of one.

I think that Vettel would do well to move to Aston Martin Racing Point next year, where he has a very good chance of beating the Ferraris in every race!

Next year may well be a **** show in Formula 1.
- No idea what will happen to Renault but I assume a bailout of some sort from the French government (because that's what you do if you are a French car maker in hard times). The optics of running a several hundred million dollar F1 expense while taking taxpayers' money and closing factories, are not great. And without Goshn at the helm, the alliance with Nissan and Mitsubishi is no longer what it was.
-Williams has to be hanging on by a thread and will lose more sponsors this year. Latifi isn't their saviour financially or on the track.
-Ditto Haas.
- If Stroll's ownership causes Aston to pull its title sponsorship from RBR, where will Red Bull be financially? At the very least, they might not have the funds to run a "B" team, so be prepared to see Alfa Tauri sidelined.
- Anybody's guess whether McLaren will be back on the grid next year. The entire company is failing and were it not from a GPB 150 million bailout from the Bank of Bahrain they would have collapsed before the Styrian GP. That money will not last long, keeping the entire organization afloat, and their road cars have taken a huge hit in sales this year.
- Alfa is fast becoming a joke. Not sure if the Angnelli family wants two laughing stock teams in Formula 1.
- I don't see a lineup of other teams wanting in. VAG seems to have decided to commit to Formula E. Formula 1 is a bit of a dinosaur, and definitely a rich man's indulgence. Perhaps a few more UAE teams might step up?

[Zoren 370]

Originally Posted by axmea?

I loved Toto's comment about how p'd off they were at Ferrari for their fuel cheat that they used it as energy and motivation to build a more superior car this yr.

As for the pink mercs, the team does not seem to have the race craft needed to take podium.

Ferrari is just a sore losers at this point.

[DLSTR]

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

I'm actually stoked for Tracing Point. But I also suspect that Mercedes helped them out on the deal, or they would be the ones protesting. You can copy all you like, but there is a lot of the car that we'll never see (inside ducting, underside of floor) that has significant aero. If you don't understand the "why", then just imitating the shape is only part of the battle. You have to admit, RP nailed it.

To me, this was as brilliant a business move as it was a technical feat, to make a car based on a proven a winner rather than blow a fortune to design one for only one (2020) season (or pull a Williams and just show up with the same car, new livery). We suddenly have a team to take the midfield to the leaders. And, out of sheer luck, Covid 19 has now frozen development for most of the car until the end of next year, so Lawrence Stroll got two years for the price of one.

I think that Vettel would do well to move to Aston Martin Racing Point next year, where he has a very good chance of beating the Ferraris in every race!

Next year may well be a **** show in Formula 1.
- No idea what will happen to Renault but I assume a bailout of some sort from the French government (because that's what you do if you are a French car maker in hard times). The optics of running a several hundred million dollar F1 expense while taking taxpayers' money and closing factories, are not great. And without Goshn at the helm, the alliance with Nissan and Mitsubishi is no longer what it was.
-Williams has to be hanging on by a thread and will lose more sponsors this year. Latifi isn't their saviour financially or on the track.
-Ditto Haas.
- If Stroll's ownership causes Aston to pull its title sponsorship from RBR, where will Red Bull be financially? At the very least, they might not have the funds to run a "B" team, so be prepared to see Alfa Tauri sidelined.
- Anybody's guess whether McLaren will be back on the grid next year. The entire company is failing and were it not from a GPB 150 million bailout from the Bank of Bahrain they would have collapsed before the Styrian GP. That money will not last long, keeping the entire organization afloat, and their road cars have taken a huge hit in sales this year.
- Alfa is fast becoming a joke. Not sure if the Angnelli family wants two laughing stock teams in Formula 1.
- I don't see a lineup of other teams wanting in. VAG seems to have decided to commit to Formula E. Formula 1 is a bit of a dinosaur, and definitely a rich man's indulgence. Perhaps a few more UAE teams might step up?

Clone Point achieved a 'cheap' entry into the top 3. Marko has said if they win the protest RedBull will do the same with Tauri and just set up a new copy. Spec series Mercedes F1 lol. Clone Point will not be able to afford to pay Vettel half his current salary. Seb wants a team that can win. Clone will need to copy the next Mercedes so they will need to be a year behind with the new regs. Their winning days appear numbered for now. 2023 will be the first year they can cheat and clone again if they copy Mercedes.

Vettel will not wait that long and he will not be super young by then. I see him going away for a year and hoping he gets a better seat - there will not be any open though. His only hope is Mercedes after LH.

If he leaves I think he is gone for good. With Clone he is mid pack with a no real name team, Aston or not. Hard to see his ego accepting that. Maybe his 'love' of the sport will overcome his ego for this seat.
Fun to speculate.

-Williams need a miracle - no buyers yet
-McLaren are now the Bahrain National Team. Their money is tied directly to the Government
-Renault are banking on the new reg's and cost structure to stay in the series
-Haas will be the first team to fold up and leave F1. They are debating this now and I dont see Mr Haas finding inspiration any more.

[DLSTR]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...roblem-for-fia

Formula 1 managing director of motorsport Ross Brawn believes the current protest against Racing Point will be a "tricky problem" for the FIA to resolve.

Racing Point is currently facing scrutiny over the legality over its RP20 car following protests by Renault at each of the last two races.

Racing Point has openly admitted it based the design of its car on the 2019 Mercedes W10 by using photographs, but stresses it remains within the regulations.

Writing in his post-race column, Brawn explained how copying other teams was "standard" in F1, having previously done so himself in his time as a team technical chief.

"My view is copying in Formula 1 is standard," Brawn said.

"Every team has, in normal times, digital photographers in the pit lane out there taking thousands of photos of every car for analysis, with a view of copying the best ideas. We used to give our photographers a shopping list.

PLUS: Why F1 has always been a "copying championship"

"Racing Point have just taken it to the next stage and done a more thorough job. There is not a single team in this paddock which has not copied something from another.

"I'd ask every Technical Director in the paddock to raise their hand if they haven't copied someone else. You won't see any hands. I have certainly copied others."

Renault's protest against Racing Point has focused on the brake ducts used on the RP20 car, which is argues has copied the Mercedes design.

Racing Point was permitted to use the 2019 Mercedes brake ducts last year when they were a listed part, but then had to design its own version for this year after a change in the rules.

Team principal Otmar Szafnauer said over the weekend it was "impossible" for the brake ducts to be illegal, and that he has "no concerns whatsoever" over their legality.

Brawn said that it could be difficult for the Racing Point designers to dismiss any knowledge they had of the Mercedes part when making their own version.

"Last year, Racing Point had access to, and could use, 2019-spec Mercedes brake ducts because they were not a listed part. This year, brake ducts are listed parts, so you have to design your own," Brawn explained.

"However, Racing Point cannot forget the knowledge they acquired using the 2019 Mercedes brake ducts.

"I think it is illogical to think they can wipe their memory banks. It is a tricky problem and one for the FIA experts to resolve."

The FIA is set to rule on the matter ahead of next week's British Grand Prix.

[alcheng]

Brawn has a point indeed.

At the beginning Renault makes the matter so big like RP is putting a 3D copy of the 2019 Mercedes.

However, Brawn states the point "I'd ask every Technical Director in the paddock to raise their hand if they haven't copied someone else. You won't see any hands. I have certainly copied others."


I read that article yesterday and his point reminds me years ago when Tyrell(?) brought out the X-Wings, and every team copy that after couple races, also the F-Duct, shark-fin and recent years that small wing that mount on the rear part of the engine cover.


Of cos, I am not here the support the action of RP, same as many of you, I am not a fan of this action of RP and also the recent rumors about them sacking Perez...


However, that copy-cat story also brought up a thought, if the 2020 RP is a copy of a 2019 Mercedes... that means how far ahead is mercedes to all the others...

[alcheng]

Originally Posted by alcheng

However, that copy-cat story also brought up a thought, if the 2020 RP is a copy of a 2019 Mercedes... that means how far ahead is mercedes to all the others...

further on this... rather than starting a protest against RP... shouldn't Renault, a factory team, spend their time on thinking where they can improve thus consistently faster than a one year old copy-cat?