Formula-1 2017...!!

MaysEffect · 10-10-2017, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyber370

You really believe that?

They do not have equal cars and neither do Vettel and Raikkonen. F1 teams do whatever they can get away with to make their top driver win. It's part of the game.

Right. so Bottas is using a 2015 engine an non efficient aero packaging just so Lewis can be the top driver. yet he got 2 wins and a pole this year...

And Raikkonen some how is using parts made for Sauber so he can't beat Vettel.

Cyber370 · 10-10-2017, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

Right. so Bottas is using a 2015 engine an non efficient aero packaging just so Lewis can be the top driver. yet he got 2 wins and a pole this year...

And Raikkonen some how is using parts made for Sauber so he can't beat Vettel.

It's called Tuning! Same engines, different settings. Same goes for chassis/suspension/aero setup. I would love to see Hamilton switch cars with Bottas during a race............LOL.

MaysEffect · 10-10-2017, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyber370

It's called Tuning! Same engines, different settings. Same goes for chassis/suspension/aero setup. I would love to see Hamilton switch cars with Bottas during a race............LOL.

So how is that a different car? Each driver is open to tuning the car how they see fit. The teams do not have to automatically put the same tuning parameters on both cars just because one is faster. The parts for both cars are the same unless stated otherwise, and we can visually see chassis differences and more times than not almost all team cars are identical outside of the adjustable parts such as winglets and alignment.

Just like in Malaysia where both Mercedes cars came with new aero packages. Hamilton decided to revert back to the old one, because HE did not like the upgrade. are you saying Mercedes restricted Bottas from doing the same? absolutely not. Hamilton decided to make his changes during practice, where Bottas did not. under Parc Ferme for qualifying, you are restricted on changes or it will result in a penalty.

There are of course times teams will put more effort in extracting a better setup for one car over the other, but each driver has there own team of mechanics. It's there job to get the most out of the car. You saying the cars are not equal because of this is a joke.

.

alcheng · 10-10-2017, 04:20 PM

Actually, there's no need to differ the two cars, because there's....

( Click to show/hide )

MaysEffect · 10-10-2017, 06:00 PM

Then there is that. That was a pretty straight forward team order, he needed to pit anyways and Hamilton and Verstappen were faster. There was no battle to be had there. Bottas slowing down Verstappen made way more sense.

Cyber370 · 10-11-2017, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

There are of course times teams will put more effort in extracting a better setup for one car over the other, but each driver has there own team of mechanics. It's there job to get the most out of the car. You saying the cars are not equal because of this is a joke.

.

That’s the point I was trying to make! How are cars with different setups and engine settings the "same"?

Yes I know the cars are physically the same. But the tuning and setup are not and not just because of driver preference. For example, a team may setup one car to be faster and the other slower but more reliable. Another example, they may build one engine to consume a little bit more oil than the other thus making it slightly faster. The two engines are technically the same but they do not perform the same. It’s all F1 team strategy. It's also what's wrong with F1. Good for the teams, bad for the drivers and spectators.

I'll bet if Mercedes had decided at the beginning of the season that Bottas was their man, he would be leading in points right now, not Hamilton.

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MaysEffect · 10-11-2017, 02:05 PM

You are reaching deep trying to say the cars are "different". The cars are the same, tuning parameters do not classify them as different cars. At the end of the day, both cars have the ability of producing very similar results, it wil never be 100% identical, but the fact is they posses the same baseline configuration. Oppose to the Ferrari and Mercedes chassis, which are unquestionably different.

You can go down to any dealership and buy 2 INDENTICAL cars and tune them differently to produce more or less power or handle differently, doesn't make them any less the same chassis. Me changing my alignment doesn't make the car any less the same as yours if we have the same car.

If there is so much wrong with the sport then why are you even arguing on its behalf? People complain about the engines, complain about the looks, complain about the drivers, complain about the teams. Yet these 2017 cars are unquestionably the fastest most technologically advanced in F1 history, and ratings wise, the most watched season in history.

JARblue · 10-11-2017, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

Me changing my alignment doesn't make the car any less the same as yours if we have the same car.

That alignment on the same chassis will be the difference between winning and losing in a lot of races...

MaysEffect · 10-11-2017, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

That alignment on the same chassis will be the difference between winning and losing in a lot of races...

100% agree, but it doesn't make it a different car.

In the case of F1, all the teams are locked into a much more restricted formula than we ever would be with road cars. So there has to be some way of getting an advantage over your team mate and rivals.
At least with road cars, we have the option of making several changes to the base car. Tires, tire sizes, suspension, etc. Both Mercedes W08's use the same parts throughout.

Cyber370 · 10-12-2017, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

You are reaching deep trying to say the cars are "different". The cars are the same, tuning parameters do not classify them as different cars. At the end of the day, both cars have the ability of producing very similar results, it wil never be 100% identical, but the fact is they posses the same baseline configuration. Oppose to the Ferrari and Mercedes chassis, which are unquestionably different.

You can go down to any dealership and buy 2 INDENTICAL cars and tune them differently to produce more or less power or handle differently, doesn't make them any less the same chassis. Me changing my alignment doesn't make the car any less the same as yours if we have the same car.

If there is so much wrong with the sport then why are you even arguing on its behalf? People complain about the engines, complain about the looks, complain about the drivers, complain about the teams. Yet these 2017 cars are unquestionably the fastest most technologically advanced in F1 history, and ratings wise, the most watched season in history.

Let’s agree to disagree on this one. Enjoy the ride.......cheers.

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JARblue · 10-12-2017, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

100% agree, but it doesn't make it a different car.

In the case of F1, all the teams are locked into a much more restricted formula than we ever would be with road cars. So there has to be some way of getting an advantage over your team mate and rivals.
At least with road cars, we have the option of making several changes to the base car. Tires, tire sizes, suspension, etc. Both Mercedes W08's use the same parts throughout.

Semantics. No one is arguing that the difference between the two Mercedes F1 cars is like the difference between a Ford Focus and a Honda Civic.

The point is that the cars on track are not equal. Therefore, the same driver in a different car may produce different end results. There are lots of variables here, of course, that determine how much difference there is. And it will pretty much always be a "what if" scenario. But those variables are what give some validity to the discussion/question of "how would driver X fare in driver Y's car?". Cars on the same team are going to be closer in that regard, but I still wonder if Lewis or Seb could race the same in their respective teammate's car for a weekend. Not sure that's a question that can actually be answered though.

Hotrodz · 10-12-2017, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Semantics. No one is arguing that the difference between the two Mercedes F1 cars is like the difference between a Ford Focus and a Honda Civic.

The point is that the cars on track are not equal. Therefore, the same driver in a different car may produce different end results. There are lots of variables here, of course, that determine how much difference there is. And it will pretty much always be a "what if" scenario. But those variables are what give some validity to the discussion/question of "how would driver X fare in driver Y's car?". Cars on the same team are going to be closer in that regard, but I still wonder if Lewis or Seb could race the same in their respective teammate's car for a weekend. Not sure that's a question that can actually be answered though.

This is what happened to Hamilton last year and nobody said anything because a lot of people like to hate on those that win all the time. Essentially Hamilton's pit team including his engineers were given to Nikko and he still would have beat him if not for engine reliability and bad decision making by Totto and company. Mercedes wanted a German to be a champion and they gave it to Nikko. Such ate the politics in sports entertainment!

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DLSTR · 10-12-2017, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

This is what happened to Hamilton last year and nobody said anything because a lot of people like to hate on those that win all the time. Essentially Hamilton's pit team including his engineers were given to Nikko and he still would have beat him if not for engine reliability and bad decision making by Totto and company. Mercedes wanted a German to be a champion and they gave it to Nikko. Such ate the politics in sports entertainment!

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LH didnt race to win and changed his routine this year. He didnt walk the track at Baku and in short terms, Rosberg beat him by driving smarter and working harder. When LH had bad luck with a motor he suffered for not working hard and driving smarter to make his luck/situation better. There was no conspiracy at all behind Nico's win. It came together for him like its coming together for LH this year with a little help from Ferrari and unreliability. Thats it. Period.

Hotrodz · 10-12-2017, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLSTR

LH didnt race to win and changed his routine this year. He didnt walk the track at Baku and in short terms, Rosberg beat him by driving smarter and working harder. When LH had bad luck with a motor he suffered for not working hard and driving smarter to make his luck/situation better. There was no conspiracy at all behind Nico's win. It came together for him like its coming together for LH this year with a little help from Ferrari and unreliability. Thats it. Period.

Lol, if Rosberg is so much better why did he quit after winning the championship? Makes no sense as every other champion wants to defend their championship or win a second one to prove that it was not fluke. Rosberg knew he was not number 1 and took his ball and went home! He won the championship but he is and never will be the driver Hamilton, Vettel, or Alonzo are period!

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alcheng · 10-12-2017, 01:18 PM

2021 engine reveal set for October 31 | PlanetF1 : PlanetF1

I can't say it's the majority but as far as I read from most the "comments area" from many F1 websites, a lot of fans are asking to bring back the NA V10 or even V12.

Pretty sure they will not bring back the NA, but do you guys feel the current PU is too costly and too complicated ?

10-10-2017, 04:20 PM	#229 (permalink)
alcheng A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Toronto Posts: 28,894 Drives: 2011 ZR PW w/Clutch Rep Power: 418353	Actually, there's no need to differ the two cars, because there's.... ( Click to show/hide ) team order: Bottas 'understands' Japan GP position swap \| PlanetF1 : PlanetF1

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10-10-2017, 06:00 PM	#230 (permalink)
MaysEffect Enthusiast Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: SoCal Age: 32 Posts: 383 Drives: Infiniti FX35 Rep Power: 36	Then there is that. That was a pretty straight forward team order, he needed to pit anyways and Hamilton and Verstappen were faster. There was no battle to be had there. Bottas slowing down Verstappen made way more sense.

10-11-2017, 02:05 PM	#232 (permalink)
MaysEffect Enthusiast Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: SoCal Age: 32 Posts: 383 Drives: Infiniti FX35 Rep Power: 36	You are reaching deep trying to say the cars are "different". The cars are the same, tuning parameters do not classify them as different cars. At the end of the day, both cars have the ability of producing very similar results, it wil never be 100% identical, but the fact is they posses the same baseline configuration. Oppose to the Ferrari and Mercedes chassis, which are unquestionably different. You can go down to any dealership and buy 2 INDENTICAL cars and tune them differently to produce more or less power or handle differently, doesn't make them any less the same chassis. Me changing my alignment doesn't make the car any less the same as yours if we have the same car. If there is so much wrong with the sport then why are you even arguing on its behalf? People complain about the engines, complain about the looks, complain about the drivers, complain about the teams. Yet these 2017 cars are unquestionably the fastest most technologically advanced in F1 history, and ratings wise, the most watched season in history.

10-12-2017, 01:18 PM	#240 (permalink)
alcheng A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Toronto Posts: 28,894 Drives: 2011 ZR PW w/Clutch Rep Power: 418353	2021 engine reveal set for October 31 \| PlanetF1 : PlanetF1 I can't say it's the majority but as far as I read from most the "comments area" from many F1 websites, a lot of fans are asking to bring back the NA V10 or even V12. Pretty sure they will not bring back the NA, but do you guys feel the current PU is too costly and too complicated ?