Obama's inaugural choice sparks outrage

BanningZ · 12-18-2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

(CNN) -- Prominent liberal groups and gay rights proponents criticized President-elect Barack Obama Wednesday for choosing evangelical pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at the presidential inauguration next month.

Warren, one of the most influential religious leaders in the nation, has championed issues such as a reduction of global poverty, human rights abuses and the AIDS epidemic.

But the founder of the Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, has also adhered to socially conservative stances -- including his opposition to gay marriage and abortion rights that puts him at odds with many in the Democratic Party, especially the party's most liberal wing.

"[It's] shrewd politics, but if anyone is under any illusion that Obama is interested in advancing gay equality, they should probably sober up now," Andrew Sullivan wrote on the Atlantic Web site Wednesday.

People for the American Way President Kathryn Kolbert told CNN she is "deeply disappointed" with the choice of Warren and said the powerful platform at the inauguration should instead have been given to someone who has "consistent mainstream American values."

"There is no substantive difference between Rick Warren and James Dobson," Kolbert said. "The only difference is tone. His tone is moderate, but his ideas are radical."

Dobson, a social conservative leader, is founder and chairman of Focus on the Family.

Linda Douglass, a spokeswoman for Obama, defended the choice of Warren, saying, "This is going to be the most inclusive, open, accessible inauguration in American history."

"The president-elect certainly disagrees with him on [lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender] issues," Douglass said. "But it has always been his goal to find common ground with people with whom you may disagree on some issues."

Douglass also noted that Obama and Warren agree on several issues, including advocating on behalf of the poor, the disadvantaged and people who suffer from HIV/AIDS. Video Watch CNN's Anderson Cooper and his panel discuss the selection »

Warren's support of California's Proposition 8, a measure that outlaws same-sex marriage in the state, sparked the ire of many gay rights proponents earlier this fall.

Warren, who has made it a practice not to endorse candidates or political parties, wrote in October that the issue of gay marriage is not a political issue, but instead "a moral issue that God has spoken clearly about."

"For 5,000 years, every culture and every religion -- not just Christianity -- has defined marriage as a contract between men and women," Warren wrote in a newsletter to his congregation. "There is no reason to change the universal, historical definition of marriage to appease 2 percent of our population."

Warren also stirred controversy earlier this week when he told Beliefnet.com his grounds for opposing same-sex marriage lay primarily on his right of free speech.

"There were all kinds of threats that if [Proposition 8] did not pass, then any pastor could be considered doing hate speech if he shared his views that he didn't think homosexuality was the most natural way for relationships, and that would be hate speech."

Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights campaign, said Wednesday he feels a "deep level of disrespect" over the choice of Warren and is calling on Obama to reconsider the move.

"By inviting Rick Warren to your inauguration, you have tarnished the view that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans have a place at your table," Solmonese said in an open letter to Obama that was released by his organization.

In his recent interview with Beliefnet, Warren also sparked outrage among supporters of abortion rights for criticizing those who have said abortion would be "safe and rare."

"Don't tell me it should be rare," he said in the interview. "That's like saying on the Holocaust, 'Well, maybe we could save 20 percent of the Jewish people in Poland and Germany and get them out and we should be satisfied with that -- I'm not satisfied with that. I want the Holocaust ended."

But Warren, whose church attracts more than 20,000 people a week, has widely been recognized for his attempts to expand the evangelical movement beyond socially conservative issues.

In the 2008 election, Warren hosted Obama and Sen. John McCain, the Republican presidential nominee, at a candidate forum held in his church.
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His book "The Purpose Driven Life" has sold more than 20 million copies since it was first published five years ago, and Time magazine named him one of the 25 most influential evangelicals in 2005.

"Many believe that Warren ... is the successor to the [Rev. Billy Graham] for the role of America's minister," Time wrote in 2005.

Seriously???

Fvcking hate things sometimes.

Rick Warren??

Couldn't we find some hidden Nazis in Brazil? They might be more friendly, and accepted.

FAIL

FYI: That weird spacing in the quote is not me, its just how it transferred over and I can't figure out how to fix it, but I did continue it with my quote, for the hell of it. FAIL x 2

drmike · 12-18-2008, 10:06 AM

Yawn. My emotional level in regards to this stimulus barely registers on a microgiveashitometer.

BanningZ · 12-18-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmike

Yawn. My emotional level in regards to this stimulus barely registers on a microgiveashitometer.

Your response completely failed to create humor or creative thinking. *yawn*

drmike · 12-18-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BanningZ

Your response completely failed to create humor or creative thinking. *yawn*

Indeed.

shumby · 12-18-2008, 06:31 PM

SnakeBitten · 12-19-2008, 05:46 PM

I guess tolerance only works one way

Asheth · 12-19-2008, 06:06 PM

I think its something to talk about just to have something to talk about. In the end he is a Pastor a man of the bible. Which expressly goes against same-sex marriage and so forth.

But that goes into another story anyway

dad · 12-19-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asheth

I think its something to talk about just to have something to talk about. In the end he is a Pastor a man of the bible. Which expressly goes against same-sex marriage and so forth.

But that goes into another story anyway

Yea, it's called discrimination.

shumby · 12-19-2008, 06:57 PM

^^^^ no it is called having beliefes. When you force your beliefes on someone or take radical actions that is when it is wrong. I am against gay marrage but hey that is my belief. If people believe different that is ok that is what makes us individuals we don't have to agree with everyones beliefs but we should respect their right to have them.

dad · 12-19-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shumby

^^^^ no it is called having beliefes. When you force your beliefes on someone or take radical actions that is when it is wrong. I am against gay marrage but hey that is my belief. If people believe different that is ok that is what makes us individuals we don't have to agree with everyones beliefs but we should respect their right to have them.

I'm not talking about beliefs, it's plain and simple discrimination.

drmike · 12-19-2008, 09:46 PM

For the record I voted against Prop 8, and I have no moral issues with gays, either. I just don't see what is the big deal, aren't they people too? Regardless, I could care less what some preacher says.

dad · 12-19-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmike

For the record I voted against Prop 8, and I have no moral issues with gays, either. I just don't see what is the big deal, aren't they people too? Regardless, I could care less what some preacher says.

Same here! It's their business, no body else's! They don't bother me, I don't bother them! Personally I enjoy watching to lesbians having a clam fight!

Asheth · 12-20-2008, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shumby

^^^^ no it is called having beliefes. When you force your beliefes on someone or take radical actions that is when it is wrong. I am against gay marrage but hey that is my belief. If people believe different that is ok that is what makes us individuals we don't have to agree with everyones beliefs but we should respect their right to have them.

Exactly its not discrimination at all. If you have someone that believes in the bible for its word. Especially as a Pastor then he has that right and his life calling for serving the lord and following the bibles shapes his beliefs.

If he was a Pastor and was for gay marriages then I would actually think it was fishy and have a problem with it because then he is letting someone else shape his beliefs and not the bible and the lords word which is who he has put his life to serve. If not then he would be corrupt in my eyes because a Democratic President-Elect wants him for his inauguration and then that means he is swayed and serving his on needs and not who he has devoted his life too God.

For the record I have no problem with them at all they dont affect my life so I hold no grudge against them. Its not my choice its theres so I dont care either way what they do.

SnakeBitten · 12-20-2008, 09:10 AM

Bottomline is folks Religion and Politics dont mix. Religion is about Gods right to rule. Politics is about Mans right to rule. They dont and shouldnt be mixed. They always mix when there is money or power up for grabs. That simple fact, that you can see down through history, is reason enough to suspect institutionalized religion as a whole imho.

I have a problem with a Pastor of any Christian church swearing in a Political figure. Why would God bless his creation thats trying to userp His right to rule mankind? To me thats the bigger issue than the protection of the right for a minority of people to play hide the banana. Religion is just as corrupt as Politics as you have seen some churches "modify Gods laws" to allow homosexuals, pedophiles, fornicators, adulterers etc to be part of and lead the church. More "inclusive" means more mass appeal which in turn means more money. Its all about filling up those seats to maximize collections. Even got some churches with gambling machines in the lobby LMAO.

Its no wonder that as a whole lots of people are not siding with the "moral" aspect of homosexuality because they see the hypocracy of it all. Where were morals when the church protected the pedophiles, fornicators etc?? Morality should be applied to everyone not just Gays. We all fall down under the moral microscope. As a headcrack consider that God mentioned fornication, adultery and homosexuality in the same breath to describe things he hates

Take that for what its worth.

That being said Im against gay marriage as I am a believer in God. And as such I believe that Christians have a right to be againsts whatever God is against. Just as much as the Gays want to protect there right under mans law, the Constitution, religious folks need to have there rights respected and defended against the Gay agenda. When you speak like this you get labeled with anti-gay etc slurs, you get demonized into some Hitler-esque type of person. I assure you I have no ounce of hate for any human being gay or straight. I do however "hate" the act. But who the hell am I? We all have our vices and God is the ultimate judge.

I may now be the [Olberman] WORST PERSON............IN THE WOOOORLD[/Olberman] after saying this

BanningZ · 12-20-2008, 09:36 PM

First off I'm bothered that we have an Inaugural Prayer. wtf? Seems weird that its not being questioned, that we are mixing church and state as the first act of a new administration.

Secondly. There were a lot of people during the civil rights movement of the 1950's, 60s, and early 70's that claimed it was their personal belief that Blacks were not equal to whites, or that blacks should not be integrated into public schools, and other public institutions. They said it wasn't discrimination, it was just their personal belief, but today we call those people bigots. This is not by any means an attack on anyone here and their beliefs but remember that as time moves on, people reflect of their past beliefs and reconsider them.
Gays and Lesbians are people that deserve every right that any straight people deserve.
Gays and Lesbians overwhelmingly voted for Obama, and to have a person like Warren, with such discriminatory beliefs make Obama's inaugural prayer is pretty insulting to the very people that helped get him elected.

just my two cents.

Edit: SnakeBitten, no you are not the Worst person in th woooorrrllldd! LOL. I think you made some very valid points. I actually would not have included my first part about inagural prayer if I had seen your post first. Opinions are like a55holes, we all have...etc. Good post.

12-18-2008, 10:06 AM	#2 (permalink)
drmike Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kern Co., California Age: 53 Posts: 356 Drives: '03 Mini S+'94 Miata Rep Power: 16	Yawn. My emotional level in regards to this stimulus barely registers on a microgiveashitometer. __________________ txwerks.com (side biz) xcor.com (main biz)

12-18-2008, 06:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
shumby Captin Canuck Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: with your mom Age: 44 Posts: 6,288 Drives: your sister Rep Power: 236	__________________ Originally Posted by SAM@GTM Engine detonation is not normal and it should never never happen, and whoever told that need to do something else for living . Sam

12-19-2008, 05:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
SnakeBitten Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Midwood Posts: 232 Drives: 05 DBZ M6 Rep Power: 16	I guess tolerance only works one way __________________

12-19-2008, 06:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
shumby Captin Canuck Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: with your mom Age: 44 Posts: 6,288 Drives: your sister Rep Power: 236	^^^^ no it is called having beliefes. When you force your beliefes on someone or take radical actions that is when it is wrong. I am against gay marrage but hey that is my belief. If people believe different that is ok that is what makes us individuals we don't have to agree with everyones beliefs but we should respect their right to have them. __________________ Originally Posted by SAM@GTM Engine detonation is not normal and it should never never happen, and whoever told that need to do something else for living . Sam

12-19-2008, 09:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
drmike Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kern Co., California Age: 53 Posts: 356 Drives: '03 Mini S+'94 Miata Rep Power: 16	For the record I voted against Prop 8, and I have no moral issues with gays, either. I just don't see what is the big deal, aren't they people too? Regardless, I could care less what some preacher says. __________________ txwerks.com (side biz) xcor.com (main biz)

12-19-2008, 06:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
Asheth Track Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland Posts: 917 Drives: 09 Blk 6mt Rep Power: 17	I think its something to talk about just to have something to talk about. In the end he is a Pastor a man of the bible. Which expressly goes against same-sex marriage and so forth. But that goes into another story anyway

12-20-2008, 09:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
SnakeBitten Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Midwood Posts: 232 Drives: 05 DBZ M6 Rep Power: 16	Bottomline is folks Religion and Politics dont mix. Religion is about Gods right to rule. Politics is about Mans right to rule. They dont and shouldnt be mixed. They always mix when there is money or power up for grabs. That simple fact, that you can see down through history, is reason enough to suspect institutionalized religion as a whole imho. I have a problem with a Pastor of any Christian church swearing in a Political figure. Why would God bless his creation thats trying to userp His right to rule mankind? To me thats the bigger issue than the protection of the right for a minority of people to play hide the banana. Religion is just as corrupt as Politics as you have seen some churches "modify Gods laws" to allow homosexuals, pedophiles, fornicators, adulterers etc to be part of and lead the church. More "inclusive" means more mass appeal which in turn means more money. Its all about filling up those seats to maximize collections. Even got some churches with gambling machines in the lobby LMAO. Its no wonder that as a whole lots of people are not siding with the "moral" aspect of homosexuality because they see the hypocracy of it all. Where were morals when the church protected the pedophiles, fornicators etc?? Morality should be applied to everyone not just Gays. We all fall down under the moral microscope. As a headcrack consider that God mentioned fornication, adultery and homosexuality in the same breath to describe things he hates Take that for what its worth. That being said Im against gay marriage as I am a believer in God. And as such I believe that Christians have a right to be againsts whatever God is against. Just as much as the Gays want to protect there right under mans law, the Constitution, religious folks need to have there rights respected and defended against the Gay agenda. When you speak like this you get labeled with anti-gay etc slurs, you get demonized into some Hitler-esque type of person. I assure you I have no ounce of hate for any human being gay or straight. I do however "hate" the act. But who the hell am I? We all have our vices and God is the ultimate judge. I may now be the [Olberman] WORST PERSON............IN THE WOOOORLD[/Olberman] after saying this __________________ Last edited by SnakeBitten; 12-20-2008 at 09:13 AM.

12-20-2008, 09:36 PM	#15 (permalink)
BanningZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: nowhere Posts: 5,478 Drives: 06' Nismo Frontier Rep Power: 28	First off I'm bothered that we have an Inaugural Prayer. wtf? Seems weird that its not being questioned, that we are mixing church and state as the first act of a new administration. Secondly. There were a lot of people during the civil rights movement of the 1950's, 60s, and early 70's that claimed it was their personal belief that Blacks were not equal to whites, or that blacks should not be integrated into public schools, and other public institutions. They said it wasn't discrimination, it was just their personal belief, but today we call those people bigots. This is not by any means an attack on anyone here and their beliefs but remember that as time moves on, people reflect of their past beliefs and reconsider them. Gays and Lesbians are people that deserve every right that any straight people deserve. Gays and Lesbians overwhelmingly voted for Obama, and to have a person like Warren, with such discriminatory beliefs make Obama's inaugural prayer is pretty insulting to the very people that helped get him elected. just my two cents. Edit: SnakeBitten, no you are not the Worst person in th woooorrrllldd! LOL. I think you made some very valid points. I actually would not have included my first part about inagural prayer if I had seen your post first. Opinions are like a55holes, we all have...etc. Good post. __________________ Become a Premium Member: Click HERE MB 06' Nismo VQ40DE Last edited by BanningZ; 12-20-2008 at 09:40 PM.

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