Subaru powered Toyota FT-86 Concept

Shamu

I disagree I have typically bought production cars and broke even after driving them for 2 years. It takes some skill but I have done it multiple times. I bought Mazdaspeed 6 gt for 23k and two years later sold it for $22k and bought a new Chevy crewCab truck for $19k and sold it for 17k two years later. Your not going to get close to that with BRZ unfortunately so you lose a big piece of your intial investment.

You have more choices than you think! Go make a deal on a BMW 135 or even 128 coupe. Way more car for the money!

I just don't think making car rear wheel drive is worth $10 k premium over cars using similar motor etc. the power of marketing is a wonderful thing! Makes people like me a ltttle richer separating those who can rationalize this purchase with their hard earned cash!

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Grant

Shamu

Have you seen new pics Of convertible Versions? The lose back seat!

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Grant

Zaggeron

I meant you'd never make your money back on a new car. Your example of losing only 2k on a new truck after 2 years is an exception not an ordinary case. Most of the time you lose that much after driving off the lot.

I can't buy used. I just think back to how I used to treat cars and I can't bring my self to trust anyone owning a car before me. I know ... not very reasonable, but what the hay.

I was actually looking at 135/128 first, but buying one new with the features I want is much more expensive than the BRZ -- and you don't get that much more with the 128 and the 135 is about 6k more.

The thing I really want is small and light. I remember my old '74 fiat spider I had in the early 90s. 1.8 liter, not very fast, but light and nimble and fun to toss around. For my everyday driver I don't want a powerful car. I just want a fun light car that has RWD dynamics. Keep tossing out options cause I'm open to any new car that fits my bill. Like I said, I have a certain style of car in mind and I'm willing to pay extra for it (up to a point), but I'm not seeing much in that class.

That's part of the reason I want the BRZ/FRS to be successful. I want these sorts of cars to be more available and the only way that will happen is if people buy them. So if I have to pay a bit more than I normally would for the same level of car, I just chalk that up to taking one for the enthusiast team. You're welcome

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2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

Jordo!

I desperately want them to make a version with OEM boost and compete seriously with the Z.

That would be my next car (unless the next Z is even better...)

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Enjoy it. Destroy it.

vo2max99

Here's what you don't get / are missing Ghost Rider:

The point I've been making is that it's ridiculous to ASSUME one way or the other that the BRZ / FR-S are somehow "over priced" and or "under powered" based one what is known.

If most reviews said the BRZ / FR-S were a POS / Too slow, etc there might be a bases for that sort of opinion. However, seeing as this is NOT the case there's no bases to ASSUME the car is somehow not worth the price.

It's dumb enough to judge a car having never driven it but to dis it when the reviews have been so overwhelmingly positive it makes absolutely no sense. It's pretty simple stuff.

When a car "s" and deemed to be phenomenal by most accounts it just doesn't make much sense to conclude (without driving nonetheless) that the car "s" will somehow / someway not be worth it / over priced, etc.


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vo2max99

Motor Trend track tested:

Scion FR-S
Subaru BRZ
Ford Mustang
Hyundai Gen Coupe
Mazda MX-5 Miata
VW GTI

Summary:

1st place: Subaru BRZ - Offers Miata levels of driving enjoyment, with the practically and livability of a car with a roof, four seats, and truck. So it wins because they deemed it the best overall package in addition to being almost as fun as the MX-5.

2nd place: Scion FR-S - Basically the same as the BRZ but not quite the bargain considering interior /features.. Oh and it's a little more prone to oversteer /less controllable .

3rd place: Mazda MX-5 Miata- The most fun to drive car of the group. Pro driver "Randy Pobst" stated: "There's a reason 80 MX-5 Miatas are on the Pre-Grid at Road America, and it's the same reason this is the only car in which I did an extra lab simply 'cause I didn't wanna stop".

4th place: Ford Mustang - Pobst sums up the Mustang this way: "In terms of this group of cars, the Mustang is fast and numb"." Against the likes of BRZ, FR-S and Miata, it feels less engaging and, ultimately fat".

5th place: VW GTI - Drivers who require that a car have more than a tinge of practically need look no farther. But when performance is paramount, they'd be well advised to keep looking.

6th place: Hyundai Gen Coupe 2.0T R-Spec - Randy Pobst "Good mid-range torque, but feels distant and rubberized, detracting from on-track gratification". They complained about the crappy 6MT, steering feel / feedback and a few other things as well. It put down pretty good #'s though if that matters.

These cars are all 30K and under but I don't think there's a new car up to 40K that would knock off the top 3 here besides maybe the EVO and it would be close in terms of being a superior driver's car.

As far as straight line acceleration the BRZ / FR-S / MX-5 posted nearly identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times: MX-5- 6.3 / 14.9; BRZ- 6.4 / 14.9 / FR-S-6.2 / 14.8.

The Mustang was the fastest car of the group posting: 5.3 / 13.9 followed by the Gen Coupe's 5.7 / 14.2 and GTI's (6-speed twin-cl auto) 6.1 / 14.7

Just another great example showing how test track #'s don't even begin to scratch the surface when evaluating the value of a sports car.


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cossie1600

Once again, a RX-8 with better gas mileage. Big deal.

b1adesofcha0s

You also can't assume the FRS/BRZ is a great driver's car without actually driving it first. Just because MT put it in 1st place on some comparison test doesn't give it more value as a sports car.

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Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) | Uprev Tune by AAM Competition | Berk Exhaust
Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) | Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

Red__Zed

No, we still like MT here. It was car and driver that we determined was useless
:|

shadoquad

You say this as if it's a bad thing.

b1adesofcha0s

Oh sorry, my bad. All hail the BRZ

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Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) | Uprev Tune by AAM Competition | Berk Exhaust
Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) | Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

speedfreek

This argument over under-powered and over-priced is funny. I am not going to argue the point of it being over-priced because people are willing to pay different prices for stuff. I believe it is priced high because of hype and like most of you have said it will settle in the next couple years. The argument over it being under-powered is stupid for someone to argue. Most will always want more power you will never be saying "No I dont want to add any hp cuz I dont want to mess with the driveability". If you do then . You always want more. Even if you are driving something that is fast to begin with...how long is it before that doesnt feel fast anymore and you go under the hood to try and get more out of it? I mean look at the Lotus for example...why would you dual-charge the thing? Was it not an awesome "driver's" car out of the box? But I digress this kid is all about his FRS/BRZ/MX5's and he wants you to be to. Don't say anything negative about it. There is no room for improvement as this is the pinnacle of car development as we know it I mean the magazines say so....

b1adesofcha0s

Hennessey Venom GT anyone?

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Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) | Uprev Tune by AAM Competition | Berk Exhaust
Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) | Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

shadoquad

lol I know Lotus Elise owners who are perfectly happy without charging.

But you are right, people always want more power (for some reason). There are plenty people who think the 370z is underpowered. That boggles my mind. Hell, there are GTR owners who crave more power out of their whips. But I'm ok with the FRS/BRZ/MX5 having lower power numbers out the gate. There is nothing wrong with 150-200hp in a lightweight car. It is gobs of fun.

speedfreek

I hear you shadoquad. I am not hating on the BRZ/FRS. I generally like the look of them. The first white one sold here is at the speaker shop in town already getting work done straight from the show room floor. I would like to drive one to see what all the hype is about. Unfortunately they are all sold when they reach the dealer and no chance of test driving unless you order one and put down a deposit. At least that is the way it is around here.

Hennessey Venom GT = Lotus on steroids...lots of steroids!