Subaru powered Toyota FT-86 Concept

Waiz

I agree with your points MC, give it a year and prices will drop or you will be able to pickup a much cheaper used one.

No way would I pay the dealer premium just to be an early adopter but I would still want to pick one up

Isamu

this...

they are pretty sharp in person tho

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Project: SuperNova Owner/Operator and Lead designer @BlackGuard Aeroworks

nuTinmuch

I hope they sell well, but I also hope they come down in price.

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nuTinmuch! -- Platinum Graphite 370Z -- Check out my Gallery thread here!

Shamu

These BR-Z's are going to be awesome used sports cars as they will plumet in value when the novelty wears off. They are being propped up in introduction due to pent up demand. Similar to Porsche Boxsters that were selling for $50K new when they first came out and a few years down the road they were $15K

Once people realize they bought a car with an average 4 cylinder commuter motor they will realize the car is about as valuable as an old econo car. They are selling high enough numbers with all the hype that there will be plenty out there so supply verses demand will cream resale values. And Demographic buying these cars will hurt resales even more! Think Mitsubishi Eclipse!

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Grant

Zaggeron

^^ You can say that about any car once it hits the used market. Some lose their value more quickly than others, but it matters little if you are getting the car new and planning to thrash it till it's worthless anyway.

I see the retail prices of new FRS and BRZs next year being on par with other niche vehicles --people are gonna pay right around invoice or a little more for them. Right now people are willing to pay MSRP, but next year they'll be many more of them around and the dealers will be selling them for invoice.

At that point everyone wins right? The dealers make a little less profit, but they have more to sell. And people get a nice little sports coupe for just a little more than a well spec'd Camry.

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2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

Shamu

That would be true if we were talking about a differnt demographic who traditionally hold onto practical cars longer. You will see yonger demographic buying these and selling them a couple years down the road.

WInners will be people like me who wait for somone to unload one with low miles at 60% off what they paid in 2 years. No I see these cars as having very high depreciation. They arent special enough to hold value and the higher numbers will mean there will be poorly cared for cars that pull others down with them. One thing Porsches had going in intial phases were parts were expensive so thrashed Boxsters still commanded decent price for parts. this car uses pretty plain Jane components shared with Subi, Toyota and Scion. Nope this car will a$s rape new buyers who pay MSRP now.

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Grant

Zaggeron

All people who buy used cars should laugh at the folks who break them in for them. You'd be raped if you bought a Corvette in 2006 and tried to sell it now

2006 base Corvette: retail in 2006 43,700. avg Kelly BB value now 27k
2006 Z06: retail in 2006 64K. avg Kelly BB value now 36K


My point is that resale value for almost all cars suck after they are a few years old. But at least for sports cars, they can bottom out as someone almost always wants them -- unlike a Camry or a Corolla which just go down and down until they hit the junkyard

Given that you are buying a new car, resale value down the road is just one of many things to consider and depreciation is one of the prices you pay for the piece of mind you get with a new car, or the satisfaction of the desire to "have it now"

Oh, and I wouldn't quite call the people who wait two years just to save a few bucks by buying it used "winners"

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2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

Shamu

However only morons were buying 2006 corvettes at MSRP. Most could be had for thousands below Invoice as gas prices were skyrocketing! I was looking at new 2008 Vettes back in 2008 for $38k not $45k Just try going under invoice with buzzy little BRZ right now.

Well history has pretty much proven cars with some level of pent up demand are not good investments. People pay at or over MSRP and frankly this car is underwhelming when you take off the delusional colored glasses. Lol! The hype will wear off when pent up demand is met. I predict that to be about two years. That's hardly a wait at all and it's going to mean thousands in savings. Heck it will pay for a blower kit and some real wheels and tires!

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Grant

Nikkolai

Wow, that car is tiny! Why even have backseats, I don't even think midgets can fit back there.

Zaggeron

lol. No mass produced car produced in this century is an "investment" -- not unless you are willing to hold onto it for years and years.

I look at it this way. I want a new DD. I'm sick of 4 doors and FWD. I don't need another high-powered car like my Z -- which is my "weekend" car that I plan to keep for a while. What are my choices in the under 30K range.

To put it another way -- what are my choices in a brand new small RWD coupe under 30K

1. Mustang -- too big and too heavy
2. Genesis -- don't like the styling and it's too heavy
3. MX-5 -- I'd buy one if I didn't already have a convertible
4. ??

I don't buy used cars so a used Rx-8 is out -- though I would have bought one if they could stand he Texas heat and got a bit better mileage.

Not much else out there is there ...

Yes, if I didn't have my Z I wouldn't pick the BRZ over the Z, but given I already have a Z, what choices do I have in the class of car I want?

I like the look of the BRZ -- it's got the features I want -- leather, Nav, etc.
It's in my price range. If when mine comes in and I like how it drives and the dealer doesn't try and ream me, I'll buy it. I really couldn't give a crap if people think it's overpriced.

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2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

vo2max99

Yeah judging a cars worth based on its test track #'s / HP doesn't make much sense unless you buy daily drivers to race them for a living.

If the BRZ / FR-S are as good as the vast majority have reported there's no good reason to think 27-29k would somehow make them over priced.

I personally think it makes a lot more sense to base a cars worth on how it feels from behind the wheel vs. the #'s it happens to produce.

Plenty of cars produce far better #'s than the MX-5 for instance but few are nearly as fun to drive. This is probably going to be the case with the BRZ / FR-S as well.

Bottom line is that to conclude that the BRZ / FR-S are somehow too little car for the money isn't even coherent.

Before I were to decide one way or another I would have to personally drive the car myself. I'm not talking just around the block and back but really drive it.

I would never check off a car and or deem it "too expensive" simply because it's test track #'s weren't as good as some other's because test track #'s don't even begin to scratch the surface when it comes to evaluating how good a sports car is.

Oh as far as re sale value the BRZ / FR-S are expected to hold they value very well so that's another plus. I'm probably going to get a new MX-5 by around August though because nothing beats a convertible on a nice sunny day. That and text book old school RWD dynamics.




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Drex

so you haven't even test driven one yet? sounds like your mind is already made up.

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2011 Nissan 370z | 6MT | Magnetic Black | Sport Package

Nikkolai

It's ok because all magazines rave about it so no need to test drive.

Spikuh

Yeah judging a cars worth higher because you can reach its limits earlier/easier doesn't make much sense because that is just illogical and dangerous to those around you on the road. We would appreciate it if you just drove like a sane person.

If the BRZ / FR-S are as over hyped as the vast majority have reports seem to exemplify there is a very good reason to think 27-29k would make them over priced.

I personally think it makes a lot more sense to understand that people have different opinions from you and you should understand that there is nothing wrong with this.

Plenty of cars produce far better #'s than the BRZ / FR-S for instance and many are more fun to drive as well. This is probably going to be the case with the Mustang 5.0 as well.[/quote]

Bottom line is that to conclude that the BRZ / FR-S are somehow WAYYYYYYYY too little car for the money is perfectly coherent.

Before I were to decide one way or another I would have to personally drive the car myself. I'm not talking just around the block and back but ON THE TRACK WHERE I LIVE AND DIE BY THE FUEL GAUAGE!!!!!

I would never check off a car and or deem it "too expensive" simply because it's test track #'s weren't as good as some other's because test track #'s don't even begin to scratch the surface when it comes to evaluating how good a sports car is. I would pick it up in secondary market instead.

Oh as far as re sale value the BRZ / FR-S are expected to hold they value very well because projetions are always 100% correct, amirite!!!! I'm probably going to get a new MX-5 by around August though because nothing beats those BAMF doors. That and text book old school RWD dynamics. I know I have been going on and on about this BRZ / FR-S implying that I might get one when it goes on sale this summer, but nope, MX-5 for me!!!

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NeoSHNIK

Look, Toyota salesman is back