2016 Alpha platform Camaro

FPenvy · 05-27-2015, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

So what about this Mustang GT350 starting at $47k?

Man the next Z is going to have to be done masterfully.

that's not a bad price for that car considering it's basically top of the mark for the mustang aside from the GT350R

RicerX · 05-27-2015, 09:46 AM

There will be a GT500 that is rumored to be Hellcat levels, but nothing officially confirmed.

You still get 500+hp, IRS, Magnetic Suspension, and a couple other things for that money... you know... Nismo 370Z money.

m4a1mustang · 05-27-2015, 09:50 AM

Pricing on the Nismo 370Z is so wacky right now.

I think Nissan has two options:

1) Build a cheap BRZ Fighter
2) Build an expensive ($60k+?) Corvette (maybe?) fighter

I just don't think they can win the price wars with Chevy and Ford in the "mid-range" segment anymore.

FPenvy · 05-27-2015, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

There will be a GT500 that is rumored to be Hellcat levels, but nothing officially confirmed.

You still get 500+hp, IRS, Magnetic Suspension, and a couple other things for that money... you know... Nismo 370Z money.

Ladies and gents, the Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 will be something of a bargain. Mustang6G has a leaked pricing sheet that indicates the base model will start at just $47,870, while the track-oriented R adds $13,500 to that price. Neither figure includes an $825 destination charge

so the R will be 60k roughly. sooo I was wrong 13k for thr track pack. 60k for a mustang is well beyond what it's worth lol

although I've been adopted into the Pittsburgh mustang club

guess they wanted one sports car in their group

FPenvy · 05-27-2015, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Pricing on the Nismo 370Z is so wacky right now.

I think Nissan has two options:

1) Build a cheap BRZ Fighter
2) Build an expensive ($60k+?) Corvette (maybe?) fighter

I just don't think they can win the price wars with Chevy and Ford in the "mid-range" segment anymore.

yea everything is so odd anymore with where pricing has gone. Nissan is in a bad position currently with the next Z depending on their costs and what is added.

soooo what is the price point you all would pay for the next Z given a TT engine with 400hp and some options. I know some want zero options and some like me want Nav and nice seats lol

DCNISMO · 05-27-2015, 10:11 AM

Give the Z TTV6, and price it around 50Kish, give it Recaro seats, adjustable shock damping, decent tech, and various engine maps for sport or comfort driving.

FPenvy · 05-27-2015, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCNISMO

Give the Z TTV6, and price it around 50Kish, give it Recaro seats, adjustable shock damping, decent tech, and various engine maps for sport or comfort driving.

sold!

i'll take one in black or Monterey Blue

AT of course

m4a1mustang · 05-27-2015, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCNISMO

Give the Z TTV6, and price it around 50Kish, give it Recaro seats, adjustable shock damping, decent tech, and various engine maps for sport or comfort driving.

How can they do that when they price the Nismo at damn near 50k right now? Knowing Nissan, what you describe would easily cost $60k+.

RicerX · 05-27-2015, 10:38 AM

A couple years ago when the GT-R started going crazy in price from its original $75k-ish price point, I had a hair-brained idea that Nissan could insert a Skyline model in between the Z and GT-R and aim it at the M3 crowd (which is now populated by Cadillac with the V cars, Lexus with the RC-F, and BMW M3/M4).

While I'm the type of guy that can forego HP as a marketing tool and accept HP as part of a total package for a car (i.e. 400hp doesn't matter much if it's going to the front wheels ... just like 3800lbs in a GT-R doesn't tell the whole story about the car's capabilities), the Z has to produce around 500hp to get bumped up into the playground of the pony cars. It doesn't mean the current car is underpowered (I don't feel that it is) or that 400hp in the current platform wouldn't make for a sick car at $35k. It is making the Z successful in the market, which means the horsepower attribute for the car has to resonate to prospective buyers that aren't already part of the Z's cult following.

500hp gets casual sports car buyers' attention. 300hp doesn't. It used to, but the game has changed. (I hate saying that as a Z guy, but it's the truth - I never felt the Z needed 500hp to be a good car.) It boils down to this - Nissan is a business. Businesses must produce profits. The next Z must be more profitable than this one, and that means Nissan has to go where the market is.

That market is NOT the BRZ crowd - the car simply isn't selling anymore and there is no other competition in the segment. Nissan is left with a choice of testing that market in hopes that perhaps the few prospective BRZ buyers that are out there are waiting to see if Honda and/or Nissan will jump in with a car of there own, or they can cater to a segment that is selling cars hand-over-fist.

They could go to both segments - a new platform with different powertrain options. (This makes the most sense to me, but does Nissan have the balls to take a chance and do this?) This solves the "Y U NO CHEAP RWD" and "Y U NO HP" problems all at once (provided they get the latter done right). It's what the pony cars are doing as well. There's more to this strategy than catering to the two markets, however - it's about capturing repeat buyers. You offer a less expensive model to bring them in, and hopefully when that purchase is paid off, said buyer is in a better financial position to upgrade to the better model. The Mustang and Camaro are perfectly positioned for this - a low $20k entry model with various trims that go all the way to $70k. Nissan doesn't have this with its sports car lineup - instead, they're hoping you buy a Juke and upgrade to an Altima.

Anyway - diatribe over. I'm almost tired of waiting to see what happens next with Nissan after the flop that is the 2016 Maxima.

FPenvy · 05-27-2015, 10:41 AM

I will add to this talk that I have been told that the Z35 is pushed to MY17 at the earliest and the rumor of th3 4 banger turbo is just a rumor. looks like the base engine will be the 3.7 NA and the upgrade option is the 3.0L TT V6.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-27-2015, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Pricing on the Nismo 370Z is so wacky right now.

I think Nissan has two options:

1) Build a cheap BRZ Fighter
2) Build an expensive ($60k+?) Corvette (maybe?) fighter

I just don't think they can win the price wars with Chevy and Ford in the "mid-range" segment anymore.

I think thats why the Z is getting a 2.0T with near 300hp and a 3.0TT v6 with approx 400hp. I think some key ideas that i came up with must happen. You know gimmicks sell a lot of these sports cars and gauges help the cars feel, well more racecar.

The all digtal 3 gauge pod with at least 6 configurable different gauges
Nissan needs to put high emphasis on a MEGA sound system separate of ANY packages
Recaro should have influence in even the standard seats.

From a mechanical standpoint

Nismo version must a serious corvette competitor.
Driving feel must really start to feel Porsche like.
KEEP THE HANDBRAKE
KEEP THE STEERING HYDRAULIC
Weight on the 400hp car shouldnt exceed 3000lbs
Look for a REAL LSD.

Aesthetically
Get the grille right.
Ergo ergo ergo
Lower the center of gravity one inch from the Z34
Lengthen the wheebase and widen car slightly.
240Z lithe hood design.

With current tech available, the Z can do it. But.....

FPenvy · 05-27-2015, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I think thats why the Z is getting a 2.0T with near 300hp and a 3.0TT v6 with approx 400hp. I think some key ideas that i came up with must happen. You know gimmicks sell a lot of these sports cars and gauges help the cars feel, well more racecar.

The all digtal 3 gauge pod with at least 6 configurable different gauges
Nissan needs to put high emphasis on a MEGA sound system separate of ANY packages
Recaro should have influence in even the standard seats.

From a mechanical standpoint

Nismo version must a serious corvette competitor.
Driving feel must really start to feel Porsche like.
KEEP THE HANDBRAKE
KEEP THE STEERING HYDRAULIC
Weight on the 400hp car shouldnt exceed 3000lbs
Look for a REAL LSD.

Aesthetically
Get the grille right.
Ergo ergo ergo
Lower the center of gravity one inch from the Z34
Lengthen the wheebase and widen car slightly.
240Z lithe hood design.

With current tech available, the Z can do it. But.....

but I added in a post above the last I heard is that the 4 banger idea is no longer a thought in the mixer but keeping the current VQ as a base option.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-27-2015, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

I will add to this talk that I have been told that the Z35 is pushed to MY17 at the earliest and the rumor of th3 4 banger turbo is just a rumor. looks like the base engine will be the 3.7 NA and the upgrade option is the 3.0L TT V6.

It makes no sense to use the VQ again. Its old and people dont want it in a pure sports car. If anything. It would make more sense to go back to the 3.5 and i hate to say it, but add hybrid tech as a torque booster. As the 3.5 was considered the better sports car engine and had a much nicer sound.

FPenvy · 05-27-2015, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

It makes no sense to use the VQ again. Its old and people dont want it in a pure sports car. If anything. It would make more sense to go back to the 3.5 and i hate to say it, but add hybrid tech as a torque booster. As the 3.5 was considered the better sports car engine and had a much nicer sound.

it's jut what I last heard. who knows if it's fact or fiction. nothing is concrete until they finally show the car and release any official info lol

90 ST · 05-27-2015, 11:26 AM

Here is a question for you guys looking at maybe getting a Gen 6 Camaro...first year production? yes or no?
I know i'm not a fan of first year production, but all the parts for the Camaro, more or less have come out of the bin from other cars.
So thoughts?

05-27-2015, 09:46 AM	#347 (permalink)
RicerX Track Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: TN Posts: 597 Drives: To the Pizza joint. Rep Power: 7720	There will be a GT500 that is rumored to be Hellcat levels, but nothing officially confirmed. You still get 500+hp, IRS, Magnetic Suspension, and a couple other things for that money... you know... Nismo 370Z money. FPenvy likes this.

05-27-2015, 09:50 AM	#348 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Pricing on the Nismo 370Z is so wacky right now. I think Nissan has two options: 1) Build a cheap BRZ Fighter 2) Build an expensive ($60k+?) Corvette (maybe?) fighter I just don't think they can win the price wars with Chevy and Ford in the "mid-range" segment anymore. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

05-27-2015, 10:38 AM	#354 (permalink)
RicerX Track Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: TN Posts: 597 Drives: To the Pizza joint. Rep Power: 7720	A couple years ago when the GT-R started going crazy in price from its original $75k-ish price point, I had a hair-brained idea that Nissan could insert a Skyline model in between the Z and GT-R and aim it at the M3 crowd (which is now populated by Cadillac with the V cars, Lexus with the RC-F, and BMW M3/M4). While I'm the type of guy that can forego HP as a marketing tool and accept HP as part of a total package for a car (i.e. 400hp doesn't matter much if it's going to the front wheels ... just like 3800lbs in a GT-R doesn't tell the whole story about the car's capabilities), the Z has to produce around 500hp to get bumped up into the playground of the pony cars. It doesn't mean the current car is underpowered (I don't feel that it is) or that 400hp in the current platform wouldn't make for a sick car at $35k. It is making the Z successful in the market, which means the horsepower attribute for the car has to resonate to prospective buyers that aren't already part of the Z's cult following. 500hp gets casual sports car buyers' attention. 300hp doesn't. It used to, but the game has changed. (I hate saying that as a Z guy, but it's the truth - I never felt the Z needed 500hp to be a good car.) It boils down to this - Nissan is a business. Businesses must produce profits. The next Z must be more profitable than this one, and that means Nissan has to go where the market is. That market is NOT the BRZ crowd - the car simply isn't selling anymore and there is no other competition in the segment. Nissan is left with a choice of testing that market in hopes that perhaps the few prospective BRZ buyers that are out there are waiting to see if Honda and/or Nissan will jump in with a car of there own, or they can cater to a segment that is selling cars hand-over-fist. They could go to both segments - a new platform with different powertrain options. (This makes the most sense to me, but does Nissan have the balls to take a chance and do this?) This solves the "Y U NO CHEAP RWD" and "Y U NO HP" problems all at once (provided they get the latter done right). It's what the pony cars are doing as well. There's more to this strategy than catering to the two markets, however - it's about capturing repeat buyers. You offer a less expensive model to bring them in, and hopefully when that purchase is paid off, said buyer is in a better financial position to upgrade to the better model. The Mustang and Camaro are perfectly positioned for this - a low $20k entry model with various trims that go all the way to $70k. Nissan doesn't have this with its sports car lineup - instead, they're hoping you buy a Juke and upgrade to an Altima. Anyway - diatribe over. I'm almost tired of waiting to see what happens next with Nissan after the flop that is the 2016 Maxima. __________________

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05-27-2015, 10:11 AM	#351 (permalink)
DCNISMO Track Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: washington dc Posts: 995 Drives: Nismo Z Rep Power: 179	Give the Z TTV6, and price it around 50Kish, give it Recaro seats, adjustable shock damping, decent tech, and various engine maps for sport or comfort driving.

05-27-2015, 11:26 AM	#360 (permalink)
90 ST A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Calgary Posts: 1,861 Drives: 90 and 15 GMC Sierra Rep Power: 421	Here is a question for you guys looking at maybe getting a Gen 6 Camaro...first year production? yes or no? I know i'm not a fan of first year production, but all the parts for the Camaro, more or less have come out of the bin from other cars. So thoughts?