2013 Automobile mags Sports car all-stars

m4a1mustang

MS3.

Actually surprised there's been so much animosity between the MS3 and FST communities. I like them both.

__________________
- Steve

Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!)
LIKE us on Facebook!

Chuck33079

If they had used the Golf R, no one would have bitched. That's a nice car.

__________________
2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

DLSTR

Its called good business. If you have the money, why not it makes you more. The GTi is the standard all hatches try to attain. No one has done it yet. Have you driven one?? Plus the new Mk7 is out here now and will be in the US next year.
My Gti is as quiet-almost as my S-model Audi was. For a hatch/economy car its amazingly versatile and luxurious.
My Abarth 500 was much more raw. I do miss that car as well. The GTi is nice but the Abarth had a very cool edge.
Here in Europe, hatch wise there is soooo much to choose from its crazy.

m4a1mustang

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice car. But there is clearly a bias.

__________________
- Steve

Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!)
LIKE us on Facebook!

Sh0velMan

Works like this.

MS3 guys - hate how nice the FST is inside, wish they had it and the features you get with it (Sync, best recaros my *** as ever been in etc)

FST guys - hate how ******* fast MS3's are with zero effort

Grass is always greener.

I'd trade the MS3 for a FST without hesitation, but that's mostly cuz my MS3 is a daily driver beater, not my vroom vroom car.

__________________
Buy My Car! | Build Thread

Chuck33079

I haven't driven one in several generations. I've driven a golf r quite a bit. I'm not bashing the car. Three things will keep me from ever owning a gti. Vw's reliability history, fwd and those godawful plaid seats.

__________________
2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

Sh0velMan

That's the biggest bunch of hoo hah I've ever heard.

No I have not driven a Mk7, but I have driven more than one Mk6.

It wasn't any more comfortable than my MS3 was (when it was new) and versatile? i get it that Europeans have entirely different standards of utility, but come ON..

The MS3, I've carried half an apartment full of **** in the back of it, you can't get half as much stuff in the back of a GTI.

That back seat, even with the hilariously ugly 4 door model is so small, no adult can fit back there.

What does a GTI have that my MS3 (and this has been addressed in subsequent refreshes) doesn't have? Leather (if you pay for it) and a touch screen infotainment system (if you pay for it). Oh and an automatic (DSG) if you're lame.

It's slow. Don't get me wrong, it can get out of its own way and it certainly quicker than your average econobox car out there, but it is NOT a fast car and should NEVER be called anything like a "Sports Car" as it neither handles like one or goes like one.

It's not really more versatile than the cars it actually competes against in the real world. Only when compared to stuff like the Fiat 500 or small sedans with seats that don't lay down.


/rant

__________________
Buy My Car! | Build Thread

Sh0velMan

If the GR wasn't so damned expensive, it would be a very noteworthy car and worth consideration as a moderately up-market 'sporty' ride.

You know, if it started @ $29K and topped out around $33-34 with options.

Instead, it starts @ $34 and tops out at nearly $37 for the 4 door with navigation, you know, if you want such luxuries as floor mats.

After TTL you're talking about a $40,000 goddamn Golf.

__________________
Buy My Car! | Build Thread

DLSTR

You need some hooha amigo

-Never said it was fast
-Abarth seats laydown. You need to get out more
-So its not an MS3, never said it was better than anything you own
-Lame Auto DSG LOL? Oh I have a manual but the DSG is nice and shifts faster, whats wrong with a buyer having some options. I will never post again about a GTI here LOL!! You are an idiot.
You need help.

UNKNOWN_370

It's a friggin FWD. Why deal with reliability issues on a hatch??? I don't purchase unreliable sports cars to begin with. I like sports cars with a reasonable cost of ownership variable.

For the price of maintaining a GTi, you can own a faster, more reliable Z and add RWD fun to it.

That said. GTi's are really nice cars behind the wheel for being FWD. Definitely is a benchmark.

But most of us here don't care cuz a RWD is still better. And now you can have a tossable FR-S for the same price. (Even though it's slower )

Golf R. AWd, never driven one. But 36k??? Damn. I think i rather an STi or EVO. Which are known to have supercar-like handling.

__________________
Favorite Quote.
"I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

Magic Bus

As an owner of a GTI and one who test drove a WRX and MS3, you guys are right to a certain extent. The GTI is the slowest of the 3.

Red6, base price of a 2013 GTI is $24,200. Base price of a same year WRX $25,795, WRX Premium $28,295, STI $34,295. Got my '11 GTI out the door for $23,600. But yes, you're right, the Subi's are faster.

Sh0vel, Since I own a GTI, I still give a ****. But granted, your MS3 is the faster car.

m4a1, Is correct, the GTI is a hell of a lot nicer inside and it doesn't stop there. The GTI rides better, plus it is a very balanced car in how it handles turns and bumps vs the aforementioned cars.

Think of it this way. Why do you guys drive and own Z's when the Mustang GT is the faster car and can be bought for the same price, if not cheaper? Speed is just one of the variable's in choosing a car that you like.

Red__Zed

Because it was released as a 2014...

bdavis89

Do some of you people really not realize that performance isn't the only thing that decides how much a car costs?

Maybe I should start a thread about the crappy MS3 and Evo interiors. Why pay $22k+ for a car with the interior of a corolla?

With the GTI you're clearly paying for a more well rounded car. Want pure speed? Then get the STI/EVO. Nobody is arguing that. Some people value more than pure speed (grown ups, professionals, etc). I'm guessing you do to, otherwise you certainly wouldn't be driving a 370z when you could have gotten a Mustang GT or STi. Move along.

PS: The GTI was my second choice after the 370z.

__________________

shadoquad

I'll chime in on the GTI/STI/MS3 debate.

I love them, all three of them.

I bought an STI, because it's fast and practical, very versatile. I can drive fast, but then have confidence and tone it down if the weather gets frosty and wet, and I can take my dog in it, and I can carry quite a lot in it. It's wonderful. But the interior isn't great. It shares a lot in common with the base Impreza in that regard. The seats are nicer imo. It's fast, but its stock tune and notchy gearbox take away some of the thrills of acceleration. But it's a lot of car for its high price. Even the base WRX is a whale of a great car and for less money.

I love the GTI. It also finished second place in my comparison when I was shopping for the 370z. A base GTI with the plaid interior is comfy if cramped, the interior is nicely laid out and pleasing to the eye. The clutch is so smooth. The Golf R, which is more in the price range of an STI, is that with AWD and more power, and it's an absolute joy to drive. Both the GTI and Golf R are nicely refined, solid cars to drive. They suffer the usual electronic gremlins that go with German cars.

The MS3 is cheap inside, but man is it a goer. That car is so fast. It is brutal on your lower back in acceleration, which is one of the reasons I didn't buy one. I always wished they would have more interior options than the red/black seats, but it's great fun and practicality for the dollar.

The Focus ST probably belongs in the hot hatch segment, too, and it's also a blast to drive, but I found the interior cabin cramped.

All cars have tradeoffs, and indeed, speed is not everyone's top priority. And it comes at a cost.


Edit: Also, speaking of performance, many track rats I've known will tell you that sometimes one can have more fun driving a slower car fast than driving a fast car at 10/10ths. Just one of the reasons you find Miatas and FRS/BRZ's at race tracks flying to the edge of their handling.

Chuck33079

A ******* men brother. This seems to get overlooked on the Internet a lot. Being able to drive the wheels off I car and still not hit "go to jail" speeds is a lot of fun if the car is cheap enough.

On the ms3/gti/Sti thing, you're spot on on every point except that ******* plaid interior in the gti being pleasing to the eye.

I've owned a well modded Sti, driven a golf r often, and if I had to pick between the three for a DD, I'd probably come home with a used ms3. It's a great "middle ground" car. Fast enough, handles well enough and is practical enough. The value isn't there on the golf r, and I'd mod the Sti past "comfortable daily driver".

__________________
2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent