Why is Ford doing more than Nissan?

UNKNOWN_370

Yeah but you can't compare the business philosophies and product line-up of ford to nissan.

I think Japan, just got pissed with american reviewers nitpicking and they let the car be.

Nissan mistakes were not fixing the first 5 issues that arose immediately. And the american media GROSSLY exaggerated the Z flaws while over-glorifying american sports entries. People in the country believe what they hear from a so-called respected source. they don't take the pepsi-challenge like they should...
While there is high logic and reasonability to your analysis. You're negating way more factors that I think played a bigger role. Nissan sells 250 Gt-R's a month, but they poor millions in that car. There's a bigger reason than NOT being like ford.

Red__Zed

The Z got great review when it was new. The typical reporting cycle generally has flaws ignored for a while.

At the end of the day, Nissan doesn't make decisions based on what car magazines say. It's a business, they have a fiscal obligation to their shareholders to maximize profits, and they do whatever they can to get there. Decisions at the top level are based on sales numbers and profit margins, not on anything else.

Some groups tend more towards different strategies. When the sporty guys are successful, you see more sporty cars from that company (think Honda circa 98). When they have some bad luck (declining sales, etc), the beancounters win (see Honda circa now).


Nissan dumps money in the GTR because it's the most effective way for them to advertise.

Beats doing this:

UNKNOWN_370

If Nissan would have made the sacrifice to immediately fix the first few criticisms... Do you think they'd be in this media situation right now?

Red__Zed

It has nothing to do with media and everything to do with sales. There's plenty of cars that do not get great reviews and still sell well. You may remember the 350Z did not get fantastic reviews either-- but...it sold

The Z didn't sell early on because it was poorly released. There was no pre-release hype, no build-up to an event. The BRZ was back-ordered how many months early on? You couldn't get your hands on a 5.0 for the first several months of release. This is what the marketing group gets paid for, and they dropped the ball.

Nissan basically started shipping 370z's to dealer lots where they sat and collected dust. A lot of people didn't even realize Nissan had released something because the car barely showed up in any media sources prior to release. The cars sat on lots, dealers started selling them under invoice, and all of a sudden it is nothing special--and you should never underestimate how stupid people are when it comes to exclusivity. The Boss mustang fixes nothing about the 5.0 that a set of Koni Yellow's couldn't do better, and yet it's in a different league.

Failing to build hype and anticipation early on will cause the car to fail long-term, even if it wasn't released 5 months in to an economic down turn.

m4a1mustang

Nissan dropped the ball big time.

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UNKNOWN_370

The 350z's competition was only really the mustang. And though it wasn't the greatest Nissan had put out. The Z was a better overall car than its only realy power competitor. build quality, performance, handling and interior was far superior than the mustang. That said, the Z was pretty crappy inside, which didn't say much for the mustang at that time.
Then there was the mazda rx-8 but it dropped off power after 80mph and consumers dont like hearing about cars dropping power and lack of torque. The Z filled a gap for people who couldn't afford corvettes or wanted a better quality car than a mustang, and needed more power than Rx8.
There were no camaro's, gen coupe flavors, BRZ's FRS's Challengers, and the solstice in the first 3 years of production got no respect. Afterward it got a small cult following.
German cars were undepowered in the affordable ranges and FWD sports cars were worn out by the public. The Z sold because there was NO true competitor and it was the best of the worst.

Alot of weak sports cars sold at one time because there wasn't a competitive market. The market is competitive now.

While you are bringing up vlid points from a business aspect. You are negating consumer response to negative hype. this whole country runs on hype. You hype it, people buy it. Lets keep it real. The Z never got hype, love or respect except for the first 6 months, before the american entries. Once the american market pulled their cars out the bias began.

example
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

Just to show a non Z example... A lot of this was going on in 09. The camaro v6 couldn't beat a civic on a track. Let alone a gencoupe 3.8. The gencoupe v6 compared to any v6 muscle made them all look like garbage. Camaro, mustang and challenger.

But this happened.

And camaro v6 sell more than gencoupes. Genesis coupes are superior to v6 muscle in every way. But watch a review and you swear its a tight race between the two. I've driven v6 muscle cars in 2010. They were jokes on wheels. I see the gencoupe as a respectable option below Z's and real v8 muscle.

Red__Zed

Sure.

There certainly weren't options like the Honda S2000 or the Mazda RX8. I feel like Pontiac may have been selling something during that timeframe too...GTO? All this to say nothing of the cars that would realistically be cross-shopped, notably the EVO, STI, GTI, R32, and things like a slightly used 4th gen camaro.


Your expectation for consumer's purchasing decisions is demonstrably inaccurate.


I'd argue it was more competitive then. There's very little competition now.



It has nothing to do with biases and everything to do with the media cycle. There's nothing new to say about the 370Z anymore. Ooh, it has an oil-cooler (standard on the Honda Fit) and some LED lights. And the wheels look like they've been melted.

Rule one. Do not make the media's job hard. Do not release a boring vehicle.

The 350Z got great late-lifecycle reviews against the mustang because Nissan added power and changed the game. The 370Z gets worse reviews than it may deserve (or maybe gets a fair review, who knows) because the media wants a horse race and Nissan's behind.

Do you remember in the 90s when MT and C&D were pitting the RX7 against the viper? Do you remember when that same RX7 was wiping the floor with the much-hyped NSX? The media ate it up...the car could do no wrong.

The 5.0 is much the same now...not as extreme, but when was the last time a 30K car left license plate imprints in an M3s bumper? Nothing sells better than a story like that, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a car that looked better in print than a 3rd gen RX7.


But wait, why did it get killed off after just 3 years?


1978: 19,299
1979: 54,853
1980: 43,731
1981: 43,418
1982: 48,889
1983: 52,514
1984: 55,696
1985: 53,810
1986: 56,243
1987: 38,345
1988: 27,814
1989: 16,249
1990: 9,743
1991: 6,986
1992: 6,006
1993: 5062

it didn't sell. You'll note the dramatic lack of anything interesting out of Mazda for a while after.

Sure, the price was creeping and times were changing, but there's not been a car that fared better in print than the 3rd gen RX7.

The problem is, as always, fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders trumps all. Don't sell, get cut.


Yes, we all know you love the gen coupe.

I don't agree with your assessment of the Gen vs the V6 mustang though. I've autocrossed both, and the mustang is way faster. I seem to recall the V6 mustang putting over a second on the gencoupe during the lightning lap, despite spending a good chunk of time bouncing off the limiter....

nuTinmuch

Uh, this is undercutting the influence of price just a tad, don't you think?

The FC to FD price difference was massive. They essentially moved the entire car upmarket. How do you think the BRZ would do if after five years or so they changed the starting price to $35,000? Even if it was a handling miracle, the old fanbase would be removed from the market and they'd have to start entirely from scratch. Likewise, that same market was highly competitive in the early 90s.

I agree though -- if a car doesn't sell it won't continue to be produced. I also disagree with the idea that the Z's problem is that the media doesn't love it enough.

But I don't believe it wasn't hyped enough at launch, or that it was launched poorly (media wise), or anything like that. I think the timeframe of the launch was poor. They released a sports car into a market that was in recession.

I think it was that decision that doomed the car. Outside of enthusiasts (a shrinking market to begin with), who the hell is going to buy a sports car with no practicality whatsoever during such a shitty economic time? We're basically repeating the 1990s, except Nissan is the only real Japanese sports car name in town. The Z is going up in price, yet has nothing new to offer. the GT-R -- once a realistic supercar -- is now out of reach for most of us. At $70,000, I thought maybe one day I could possibly own one if everything went okay. At 100 grand? I might as well be thinking about a Ferrari. I'll never be able to afford that, nor could I ever justify that much on a car.

The only bonus? If we really are in the 90s again, it'll only be a few years before we get some great hot hatches and compacts (though it'll be the Americans carrying the banner this time).

You're right, though -- poor sales meant it wasn't getting a big refresh. But the car was sort of destined to flop from the moment it was released.

As it stands now, Nissan's smartest move would be to discontinue the Z for a few years and then bring it back as a 25k 240z. But hell, even then they sort of missed the bus, as I think all the manufacturers chasing Subaru/Toyota are going to be playing a useless game of catch up.

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kenchan

fixed.

nuTinmuch

fixed

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