Why is Ford doing more than Nissan?

nuTinmuch · 03-06-2013, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I think you misread the thread title.

wat

Quote:

Don't say you're all about fun and bring up tech issues in the cockpit. That's highly contradictory.

also wat

Where do I bring up anything like that? Innovation isn't limited to nav screens.

Let's try again:

Quote:

If I was buying a car today all I can tell you is that I wouldn't be visiting a Nissan showroom. That isn't because they don't make good cars, it's because as of right now they are behind the competition.

Quote:

All I care about is fun. What car offers me fun? If I walk into a Ford showroom I can find cars that I can afford that are fun.

If I walk into a Nissan showroom I can find fun, too. But I can't afford it or it is outdated.

In other words, if I walk into a Nissan showroom I see two cars -- good ones -- but the one I can afford (the 370) is behind the competition in the year 2013. That is because of ~reasons~ (that were already stated in this thread). It's outdated.

What I'm saying is this:

Nissan should've been building a S16 or something like it. It would be nice to see a competitive Juke or SE-R. As the 370 didn't sell well, it didn't get a refresh, so it is far behind the competition. This does not mean it is a bad car. It just means it is behind the competition.

If I walk into a Ford showroom, I see cars that I like. That are fun. That I can afford. This is all. Finally...

Quote:

Deep down inside what it really boils down to is that the mustang is the fastest on the block under $40k and some ego's are hurt they don't have the fastest car. But handling wise, quality and technology wise, the Mustang is still the inferior car.

Alternatively, some people enjoy going fast in a straight line. Fun for some people might be feeling gobs of torque. Fun for others is going around corners. For me, fun isn't something I can pin down. All I know is that (for me) Nissan is lacking in the fun department. That's okay. They'll survive and they'll sell cars. As I said earlier, fun-oriented drivers like myself are a dying breed. They are likely making the right business choices.

But (as I said pages ago) I see their offerings as sub-par.

also you sort of answered your own question about the Juke. The Focus ST gets props because it went the distance (minus its dif, maybe). The Juke is close, but most would agree it is just short of being cool

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-06-2013, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuTinmuch

wat

also wat

Where do I bring up anything like that? Innovation isn't limited to nav screens.

Let's try again:

In other words, if I walk into a Nissan showroom I see two cars -- good ones -- but the one I can afford (the 370) is behind the competition in the year 2013. That is because of ~reasons~ (that were already stated in this thread). It's outdated.

What I'm saying is this:

Nissan should've been building a S16 or something like it. It would be nice to see a competitive Juke or SE-R. As the 370 didn't sell well, it didn't get a refresh, so it is far behind the competition. This does not mean it is a bad car. It just means it is behind the competition.

If I walk into a Ford showroom, I see cars that I like. That are fun. That I can afford. This is all. Finally...

Alternatively, some people enjoy going fast in a straight line. Fun for some people might be feeling gobs of torque. Fun for others is going around corners. For me, fun isn't something I can pin down. All I know is that (for me) Nissan is lacking in the fun department. That's okay. They'll survive and they'll sell cars. As I said earlier, fun-oriented drivers like myself are a dying breed. They are likely making the right business choices.

But (as I said pages ago) I see their offerings as sub-par.

also you sort of answered your own question about the Juke. The Focus ST gets props because it went the distance (minus its dif, maybe). The Juke is close, but most would agree it is just short of being cool

i go in nissan and i see cars i like. I go in Ford I see cars i like, I go into both and i also find cars i dont. The Z is technologically behind in USB ports and ancient looking nav, Stereos etc. You're talking about fun. The Z is behind in fun? How? Where? What? Come on man. Long stories for short points.

Juke is short of being kool? lol thats weak. The focus is awesome but went the disttance where??? What distance you're talking about. The juke didnt? Where? I've driven both!!! Have you? this is where the BS line blurrs bruh.

The juke is hot for what it is. The Focus is Hot for what it is. Give me 5 solid reasons that the juke isn't a good buy. Or not kool. CVT excluded cuz thats highly subjective. A 7.3 second turbo entry @ $21k is pretty kewl to me. Only other turbo @that price is the Veloster. I'll take em both at that price.

Technology. We're going to hve to wait and see but the Q50 nav, expect 90-1005 of those features to be in the next gen Z, maxima, murano.

http://www.infinitiusa.com/all-new-q50/technology/

nuTinmuch · 03-06-2013, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

i go in nissan and i see cars i like. I go in Ford I see cars i like, I go into both and i also find cars i dont. The Z is technologically behind in USB ports and ancient looking nav, Stereos etc. You're talking about fun. The Z is behind in fun? How? Where? What? Come on man. Long stories for short points.

If I was walking into a dealership today with the same money I was when I bought the Z, I feel like I'd get more fun for my dollar from a Mustang than I would a Z.

I enjoyed the extra power. I enjoyed the sound. I enjoyed everything about the car but the seats, which were then fixed. Now, for practicality reasons I won't buy a Mustang, but if it was 3 years ago and this car was on the market? No contest.

I also feel like you have to push the Z past the limits of a street road to have (more) fun with it, where the Mustang doesn't necessarily need that.

Quote:

Juke is short of being kool? lol thats weak. The focus is awesome but went the disttance where??? What distance you're talking about. The juke didnt? Where? I've driven both!!! Have you? this is where the BS line blurrs bruh.

Haven't driven a Focus ST, but I have driven an AWD Juke. It wasn't fun. I mean, it was okay, it wasn't bad for a DD -- but fun? Nah. CVTs don't feel fun at all (also, while yes, this is highly subjective... I haven't ever seen someone compliment a CVT). It also doesn't feel as fast as you say. The engine feels (and sounds) like it is constantly under stress. I felt like the car was sort of flimsy (understandable, for what it is).

Also, there's a dude near me with one that has a bunch of mods on it -- it isn't nearly as mod-friendly as you make it seem. It seems that the max you can get out of the engine with a (way) aggressive tune and full bolt ons is around 60/70 more hp than stock. That also includes a bigger FMIC that either a). compromise the safety of the car, or b). looks hideous.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-06-2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuTinmuch

If I was walking into a dealership today with the same money I was when I bought the Z, I feel like I'd get more fun for my dollar from a Mustang than I would a Z.

I enjoyed the extra power. I enjoyed the sound. I enjoyed everything about the car but the seats, which were then fixed. Now, for practicality reasons I won't buy a Mustang, but if it was 3 years ago and this car was on the market? No contest.

I also feel like you have to push the Z past the limits of a street road to have (more) fun with it, where the Mustang doesn't necessarily need that.

Haven't driven a Focus ST, but I have driven an AWD Juke. It wasn't fun. I mean, it was okay, it wasn't bad for a DD -- but fun? Nah. CVTs don't feel fun at all (also, while yes, this is highly subjective... I haven't ever seen someone compliment a CVT). It also doesn't feel as fast as you say. The engine feels (and sounds) like it is constantly under stress. I felt like the car was sort of flimsy (understandable, for what it is).

Also, there's a dude near me with one that has a bunch of mods on it -- it isn't nearly as mod-friendly as you make it seem. It seems that the max you can get out of the engine with a (way) aggressive tune and full bolt ons is around 60/70 more hp than stock. That also includes a bigger FMIC that either a). compromise the safety of the car, or b). looks hideous.

3 years ago the mustang was a 4.6 and the Z was faster and way better. Cars evolve on different schedules dude. Whats better this year in ford may end up being weaker due to a new chevy ford nissan or whatever

I just drove a juke monday while getting an oil change. CVT on the juke isn't the epitome of fun but that boost kicks in and with the right nudging from the accelerator and things happen. Jukes are shiftable now with DRM. throw that in with boost and it's not that bad. CVT on an NA car vs a car wwith boost offers different experiences. You're reading too many mags and listening to too many people around you. Don't like a CVT fine? Try the manual? I have... Whats your complaint there. The juke manual is mad fun. I find fun in both, just different kinds. If all you do is throttle and brake and go around the block? You dont experience shyt. I've bought over $200,000 in nissans in the last 7 years. I go into my dealershi[p and ask for a test drive. I get the keys, no escort. Have tyou really test driven a juke? lol

Or is it FWD is only fun when its a focus and Not when its a Juke? :GTFO:

KaienZ34 · 03-06-2013, 10:51 AM

Like this....

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-06-2013, 11:46 AM

One other thing. What cracks me up about the Extreme Fanboi BS in here is thst i can give props to the Focus St for being a 26k fun FWD that it is and everyone will agree. Give respect to the Juke and everyone starts hating. Dfollar for dollar, the juke is extremely high quality @ $23k. The juke is loaded with modern tech @ a low price. The turbo FWD juke gets to 60 in 7.3 seconds and does the quarter mile faster than the BRZ.
BRZ 6.0/15.9
Juke 7.3 15.5
The juke will not give a purist driving experience of the BRZ but the Juke is easier to mod and a HOOT to drive. While I would love to see a manual and shiftable auto instead of CVT in the AWD. What they have so far is awesome. My issue is I'd like to see more in the sentra, versa and altima coupe segments at least. But respect is being taken away from the juke and 90% are making comments about it that haven't driven it,aren't interested in driving it and want to make defining comments. I've driven both variants. FWD and AWD and both transmissions. The AWD offers more feedback and the FWD manual builds deeper on the sporty-truck like driving experience in a little CUV that the AWD version already provides. It's truly unique experience and a Juke on special is priced nice

SS_Firehawk · 03-06-2013, 01:06 PM

Nut, try this, attached 8in all seasons to the back of your car. It will feel just like a Mustang, I promise.

b1adesofcha0s · 03-06-2013, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

Nut, try this, attached 8in all seasons to the back of your car. It will feel just like a Mustang, I promise.

More like an FRS/BRZ

Fearless_Z · 03-06-2013, 01:44 PM

Honestly, i understand the 5.0 is fast in a straight line, etc etc. But i really look at it like this, it comes from the factory basically drag ready (premium package). And its like 4 tenths of a second faster if driven right? I mean it already makes almost 100 more horsepower and definitely alot more torque. But one of the main things which gets it the 12.7 is its 3.73 gears. So honestly, i dont see this car as a dominating car for what its equipped with. Better gears and way more torque and horsepower and its 4 tenths of a second ahead of a barely track ready car that makes much less power and isnt meant for drag? Just my 2 cents.

b1adesofcha0s · 03-06-2013, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fearless_Z

Honestly, i understand the 5.0 is fast in a straight line, etc etc. But i really look at it like this, it comes from the factory basically drag ready (premium package). And its like 4 miliseconds faster if driven right? I mean it already makes almost 100 more horsepower and definitely alot more torque. But one of the main things which gets it the 12.7 is its 3.73 gears. So honestly, i dont see this car as a dominating car for what its equipped with. Better gears and way more torque and horsepower and its 4 miliseconds ahead of a barely track ready car that makes much less power and isnt meant for drag? Just my 2 cents.

Where the hell did you get 4 milliseconds from?

I wouldn't call the Z a track ready car.....not without an oil cooler. I have youtube blocked at work, so will someone else post the 5.0 vs M3 video by MT? Thanks

Fearless_Z · 03-06-2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Where the hell did you get 4 milliseconds from?

I wouldn't call the Z a track ready car.....not without an oil cooler. I have youtube blocked at work, so will someone else post the 5.0 vs M3 video by MT? Thanks

Well ill tell you where i got it from. Here, the forums. Have you looked at the 1/4 mile times here? There have been completely stock Z's run a 12.9, so thats more like 2 tenths of a second. Stock tires and everything too. And i said "barely"track ready if at all. You clearly dont read your sentences all the way through. You can make this a youtube battle but the evidence has already been given. So idk what else to tell you.

b1adesofcha0s · 03-06-2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fearless_Z

Well ill tell you where i got it from. Here, the forums. Have you looked at the 1/4 mile times here? There have been completely stock Z's run a 12.9, so thats more like 2 miliseconds. Stock tires and everything too. And i said "barely"track ready if at all. You clearly dont read your sentences all the way through. You can make this a youtube battle but the evidence has already been given. So idk what else to tell you.

1) Do you know how much 2 milliseconds is? That's 0.002 seconds. There's more variation than that in the same car from run to run. I think you meant 2 tenths of a second.

2) Looked at the times here? I WAS the one who ran 12.9 stock. I know more than anyone that that run was more luck than the car being really fast. I've gotten full bolt ons on my car now and I still can't even hit my stock time again.

3) "Barely track ready" implies that the car is still track ready, which the Z is not.

cossie1600 · 03-06-2013, 01:51 PM

There are always going to be faster cars. Why spend so much time worrying about it? You can upgrade all you want, but eventually your car will be dated one way or another. Just close the magazines and enjoy the drive.

b1adesofcha0s · 03-06-2013, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

There are always going to be faster cars. Why spend so much time worrying about it? You can upgrade all you want, but eventually your car will be dated one way or another. Just close the magazines and enjoy the drive.

nuTinmuch · 03-06-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

There are always going to be faster cars. Why spend so much time worrying about it? You can upgrade all you want, but eventually your car will be dated one way or another. Just close the magazines and enjoy the drive.

I only care about faster cars when I decide to post on forums.

edit: and for what it's worth, my next car will likely be slower than any of the cars being discussed anyway. Engagement clock is ticking down...

03-06-2013, 10:51 AM	#5 (permalink)
KaienZ34 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: LA. not L.a. Posts: 21,652 Drives: Z34 Tour/Sport Rep Power: 178	Like this.... shadoquad, b1adesofcha0s and XiP like this. __________________ *"These Violent Delights Have Violent Ends"* http://www.the370z.com/members/kaienz34-albums-z34.html

03-06-2013, 11:46 AM	#6 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	One other thing. What cracks me up about the Extreme Fanboi BS in here is thst i can give props to the Focus St for being a 26k fun FWD that it is and everyone will agree. Give respect to the Juke and everyone starts hating. Dfollar for dollar, the juke is extremely high quality @ $23k. The juke is loaded with modern tech @ a low price. The turbo FWD juke gets to 60 in 7.3 seconds and does the quarter mile faster than the BRZ. BRZ 6.0/15.9 Juke 7.3 15.5 The juke will not give a purist driving experience of the BRZ but the Juke is easier to mod and a HOOT to drive. While I would love to see a manual and shiftable auto instead of CVT in the AWD. What they have so far is awesome. My issue is I'd like to see more in the sentra, versa and altima coupe segments at least. But respect is being taken away from the juke and 90% are making comments about it that haven't driven it,aren't interested in driving it and want to make defining comments. I've driven both variants. FWD and AWD and both transmissions. The AWD offers more feedback and the FWD manual builds deeper on the sporty-truck like driving experience in a little CUV that the AWD version already provides. It's truly unique experience and a Juke on special is priced nice Spikuh likes this.

03-06-2013, 01:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7335	Nut, try this, attached 8in all seasons to the back of your car. It will feel just like a Mustang, I promise. UNKNOWN_370 likes this. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

03-06-2013, 01:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
Fearless_Z Base Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Center Point, LA Posts: 208 Drives: 2014 Nissan Z Nismo Rep Power: 13	Honestly, i understand the 5.0 is fast in a straight line, etc etc. But i really look at it like this, it comes from the factory basically drag ready (premium package). And its like 4 tenths of a second faster if driven right? I mean it already makes almost 100 more horsepower and definitely alot more torque. But one of the main things which gets it the 12.7 is its 3.73 gears. So honestly, i dont see this car as a dominating car for what its equipped with. Better gears and way more torque and horsepower and its 4 tenths of a second ahead of a barely track ready car that makes much less power and isnt meant for drag? Just my 2 cents. UNKNOWN_370 likes this. Last edited by Fearless_Z; 03-06-2013 at 02:02 PM.

03-06-2013, 01:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	There are always going to be faster cars. Why spend so much time worrying about it? You can upgrade all you want, but eventually your car will be dated one way or another. Just close the magazines and enjoy the drive. b1adesofcha0s, Rooster89 and Fearless_Z like this.

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