If you're going to do the maintenence yourself? You just better have time and discipline for the porsche. Not so much that it's hard but it's a time consuming process that some may not want to do religiously?
But i see why labor is so high on these. Everything is a 5 step process.

Just sayin', not worth it imo. Is that not ok? Can I not have my own opinion that such highly priced performance cars are unnecessarily complicated?

Just cause the parts don't fall off it like a mustang is no reason to get all butt hurt about it. :stirthepot:

jk :p

No, you said it made your boner shrink (see a doctor: they have pills and cream for that) and it was 'moronic'. You also referenced 'most cars'.

You are right in that most cars have easier filter access.

Most cars have engines in the front, not the middle, of said car. How many mid-engined cars are on the market place again? How man are roadsters?

There are engineering trade offs to all designs. Everyone here who has turned a lot of wrenches can give various opinions on good/bad design choices for Japanese, German, or 'Merican cars. I won't even mention Italians as they just plain phone it in too much :)

So you have to change an air filter element every 2-3 years that takes 15m longer then the Z. Is this a reason to not own a car you may dream of and is arguably the best handling car < 75K out there?

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion...it just has more weight when its an informed one with concise and logical paths. :tiphat:

- b

Overpriced German car that is overcomplicated to work on, however infrequently. My opinion is that, and you really can't convince me otherwise with snarky insults. There are many better cars for less, although they don't outhandle it.

I don't mind performing simpler tasks more frequently rather than frustrating and overblown tasks every few years.

If it were just a filter that was this complicated, not so bad, but it's most everything, yeah?

Don't get me wrong, I would love a Porsche. I just wouldn't want to maintain one. I have turned wrenches on many vehicles: American, Japanese, German, Italian.

I have also worked on mid engined two seaters

Define better? The Z has many short comings as a performance car that Porsche does not.

And again most of the simple maintenance items on Boxster really are not that tough. Just differnt to those who haven't owned a mid engine car. Guess you haven't had too much experience wrenching on many modern Japanese luxury cars lately. Again pulling a couple of easy pieces for long term maintenance items just isn't that tough. Oil changes are easy, you unscrew a couple pieces to get to air filters , big whoopee do? Tells us more about your level of mechanical ability than the car?

I have owned and serviced two boxsters myself and frankly found them far less frustrating than the Z. And the quality of the Porsche engineering and materials makes Boxster worth extra $25k. Heck you'd spend $25k fixing all the flaws on A Z and still not have a car that rides or handles better than a Boxster. I won't even start on all parts that have failed in first 12 miles of my track going Z.

From the brakes to the tranny and motor it's just a far better car than many on the road. Don't take my opinion most professional car journalists agree.

You just need to pay to play when you want to step up to a Porsche.

When did I say you can't have your own opinion? I have mine, you have yours. They differ. Big whoop. Wanna fight about it? I guess. OK. Meet me behind Starbucks.

meh - aside from the debate on how hard it is...

the video going over all the stuff is a great idea.

The scary thing is that the overly complication for basic maintenance and with $75 to $100/hr, these things adds up when you need to remove this button up that, etc. I can imagine service work beyond the basics that would make you cringe. I have a colleague who is a Porsche fan and has put a down payment on an NSX and have sold his 911S because it's past warranty.

"I sold recently b/c it was off warranty and started having expensive problems. I decided to unload it b4 I got mad at it. "

That said, if I would or more appropriately could, trade up right now; the Boxster would be my choice. In reality, the argument is really not about engineering but more of what each of us could afford in order to play. Yes it is complicated or maybe overly complicated but if one can afford it, one would. I have no doubt the Boxster is a better car than my ZR on many levels and I still lust after one on the occasion I see one. But right now, I do love my ZR. But.....I guess it is just rationalization on my part. :icon17:

Just for giggles, I test drove a Cayman S this weekend.

It's a better car than the Z, from a driving perspective, but not better enough for me to want to trade. It was an '07, which is roughly equal in price to what I bought new in '10. The car is fast, sexy, obviously more prestigious. If I had to choose between the two at initial purchase, I may have gone either way. The Cayman is certainly less comfortable. But as it is, there's no way to justify trading.

I have had zero issues with my Z, Shamu. Sorry bout your luck. I never said that I was incapable of removing the ECU, just that it's pretty stupid to have to do that in order to change an air filter.

And yeah, while Porsches may be wonderful, the price of maintenance is wacky. How dare I speak out against Stuttgart? I didn't say I hated them, only that maintaining them seems comically over-complicated and expensive. Let me know, Porsche fans, when you can accept that as a basic principle without resorting to insult. I don't expect you to agree with it, but I know I'm not alone in this opinion.

I imagine what's most pleasurable about driving a Porsche Cayman is the great balance & handling from the design's mid-engine placement sending power to the rear wheels. I always think about this placement when i'm riding my bicycle. :hello: the light curb weight, too - - -

Do yourself a favor. Go find an old 350z with say 150,000 miles on it and compare it to Porsche with same age and mileage.

Just start looking at quality of materials. Lets start with paint. Paint on Porsche is flawless and will last 20 plus years without chipping and fade we see on our Nissans. Interiors in Porsches age much better than Z's as well. I owned 2007 350z roadster for 6 years and I have to be honest it had more problems with trim, convertible top, interior than my 10 year old Porsche Boxster that I owned at same time. Porsche suspensions are typically made with high quality bilstein dampers that will last nearly a decade while we don't see similar quality with Nissans. Electronics in my 350z were problematic as well - window motors needed replacing at 5 year mark outside warranty (ouch!). Notchy shifter in 350z at 4 year mark, brakes gone at 35k with rotors that always seemed to warp? My first Boxster was at 60k and pads and rotors were still good!
.First clutch in 350z at 40k. Boxster had 101k on its clock before clutch was replaced. To me that sounds like 350z was nightmare to maintain compared to my older Boxster.

Nissan Z's still have very heavy construction and some design elements best reserved for 1980s. Heavy steel sub frame in rear is a joke, poorly insulated tunnel area is nice for sub freezing winter days but heats the car to unbearable temps in summer. Just feel that tunnel sometime on a warm day while your sitting in traffic. I found opposite of you with comfort. boxsters are far more comfortable and offer much more civil and refined ride. 370 and 350 feel like they borrowed suspension from and old ford when you hit bumps.

I m just tired of snarky uneducated Porsche bashing that I often see from likes of people who have very little experience with this marquee. I can light up on some of flaws of Porsche but difficult maintenance isn't one of them. In early Boxsters throw away motors were bigger issue. Porsche had failed attempt to make a motor they thought would be maintenance free. Oops. New motors are much much better.

I have also had luxury of pretty much dissembling a 370z and a Boxster and the way Porsches are put together just shows in every little detail. Z is closer to a Nissan Sentra economy car in many of its design elements while Boxster is much more a kin to its bigger brother the 911 a true high quality sports car.

People who get in trouble with Porsches are those who have no experience. Porsches need to be well maintained or they will kick your butt with high cost parts if you get a dealer to fix the car out of warranty but even there if you know aftermarket there are lots of high quality replacement parts. I can site example after example. I have seen people spend $25 k on same fix an experienced Porsche owner could spend $5k. I changed my own oil and filter for $30 bucks in 15 minutes while a sucker going to dealer might see $250 or even more!

Porsches aren't for everyone, but to say they are hard to maintain is sort of silly.

See problem you're going to have with me is that I have owned Porsches and Z's since the 1970s. I have owned 6 nissans/Datsuns and 5 porsches. I'm not biased to one brand like some. And I can talk same $hit with Porsche owners who unjustly bash Nissans.

But I didn't bash the Porsche. I've said repeatedly that I like the cars, and they're fun. All I said is that they're more complicated to maintain, and that it's a little annoying. I don't plan to own a sports car at 150,000 miles regardless.

I never questioned the quality of the vehicle. Not once, not ever. I simply stated that they are costlier to repair/maintain and are more complicated.

Never said I wouldn't own one. This all started because I said I wouldn't want to maintain a Porsche and that my Porsche boner shrank from watching a needlessly complicated air filter replacement.

But to speak against the Mighty Porsche, even if it's a small criticism, is apparently too much to bear for Porsche fanboys.

I wouldn't mind a Porsche, I just don't want to pay for one.