2013 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-09-2013, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

They sold 37000 C6 Corvettes in 2005 when they came out, in 2012 they only sold 11000. C5 was pretty steady, they sold over 30000 every year except for 2002 (25000). C4 sold over 50000 units in it's first year.

Given the current pricing I don't think they will ever reach those numbers again, but the car also gives a lot more too. It is more of a niche market car now than it ever was.

Yeah, the trend has been spiraling downward. Back then The corvette had true middle class pricing. Corvette is now leaning toward upper middle class and quality is ramped up drastically. More than its ever been. I give them like 35,000 units year one. Then 15,000 the next. Then they'll jump between 10,000-13,000 units every year till the C8.

cossie1600 · 05-09-2013, 09:01 PM

Most car companies selling sports car would die for 10K / year.

Lug · 05-10-2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Yeah, the trend has been spiraling downward. Back then The corvette had true middle class pricing. Corvette is now leaning toward upper middle class and quality is ramped up drastically. More than its ever been. I give them like 35,000 units year one. Then 15,000 the next. Then they'll jump between 10,000-13,000 units every year till the C8.

The uptick in price for the C7 is only $1400 over the C6 for the base model. If you look at vette prices vs. average income, I wouldn't be surprised to see that it's actually dropped in relative price over the years.

ChrisSlicks · 05-10-2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug

The uptick in price for the C7 is only $1400 over the C6 for the base model. If you look at vette prices vs. average income, I wouldn't be surprised to see that it's actually dropped in relative price over the years.

The biggest price hike was during the C4 era, the price rose 63% in a 10 year span from 1984 to 1994. The original base price was $22K, finished at $36K.

Modest 24% price rise over 8 years for the C5.

The C6 base price held pricing very steady over the 9 years, likely in response to declining sales numbers and tough economy for sports cars.

370zrider · 05-10-2013, 12:12 PM

Does anyone know if the 370z's lighting lap time was done with an oil cooler in the car?

Red__Zed · 05-10-2013, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370zrider

Does anyone know if the 370z's lighting lap time was done with an oil cooler in the car?

Yes, they added a cooler. No way you're running VIR without one.

370zrider · 05-10-2013, 01:14 PM

I don't remember where I saw that Nissan was targeting Porsche Cayman's performance with the 370z. Just as they did with the GTR beating the 911 turbo.

Still there's a huge performance gap

.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-10-2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370zrider

I don't remember where I saw that Nissan was targeting Porsche Cayman's performance with the 370z. Just as they did with the GTR beating the 911 turbo.

Still there's a huge performance gap

.

It was R&T who directly pinned the Z against the Cayman. They were basically tied for performance on the track they used. The porsche was more graceful in it's track performance though.

The porsche is a MR and the Z is FR/midship. The porsche cayman on certain tracks will exceed the Z and on others it will be a drivers race where the Z may win. Straight line speed the Z has shown to be mildly faster but carries a lower top speed.

ZMan8 · 05-10-2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

It was R&T who directly pinned the Z against the Cayman. They were basically tied for performance on the track they used. The porsche was more graceful in it's track performance though.

The porsche is a MR and the Z is FR/midship. The porsche cayman on certain tracks will exceed the Z and on others it will be a drivers race where the Z may win. Straight line speed the Z has shown to be mildly faster but carries a lower top speed.

Nissan Z has always competed with the Porsche as far as road feel, design, and performance. Porsche is of course more refined with better feel, but at 2x the price. That's where the whole "poor man's Porsche" came from. That's why these times don't make too much sense. The difference between the 370Z and cayman should of been much closer.

m4a1mustang · 05-10-2013, 01:44 PM

If you've ever driven the two... it's very obvious which car is better... by far. But it's double the freakin' price.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-10-2013, 02:06 PM

MR is just more balanced. The Z takes more skill to achieve what the Porsche can. You really gotta become one with the Z. The porsche is effortless driving. Better is subjective to your driving expectations. MR puts up less of a fight, like AWD/FR does. So criticisms of whats better can go on all day if you're driving expectations are high, low, moderate etc

But the Porsche undoubtedly has a more refined engine and a more balanced chassis, not to mention a better feeling shifter.
The Z feels more aggressive under load, is more fun and leaves a lot less room for error., The porsche is a sword and the Z is a hatchet. But with one swing of both, you can cut anything in half.

m4a1mustang · 05-10-2013, 02:07 PM

I contend that the Z doesn't quite achieve what the Cayman can. It's not that it takes more skill to drive... it just doesn't match it. Period. You have a (relatively) heavy, front-biased car vs. a lighter and much better balanced car.

But again... $30k premium.

StangerGT · 05-10-2013, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Yeah, the trend has been spiraling downward. Back then The corvette had true middle class pricing. Corvette is now leaning toward upper middle class and quality is ramped up drastically. More than its ever been. I give them like 35,000 units year one. Then 15,000 the next. Then they'll jump between 10,000-13,000 units every year till the C8.

Price goes up with everything else.

Look at the price of a car in the 70's... now look average income.

Davey · 05-10-2013, 02:27 PM

Stop making me want a Cayman, Steve.

m4a1mustang · 05-10-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey

Stop making me want a Cayman, Steve.

Awesome car... Just too expensive IMO. For the price of a new one I would rather have the c7.

I did research some CPO models but even still they were a bit more pricy than a new Z even with quite a few miles on them.

It's just one of those cars I love but would never actually buy because it doesn't present itself as a very good value relative to what else is on the market.

05-10-2013, 12:12 PM	#125 (permalink)
370zrider Base Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Mexico Posts: 106 Drives: 370zM6tour12nosport Rep Power: 13	Does anyone know if the 370z's lighting lap time was done with an oil cooler in the car? __________________ Stillen [gen3 CAI + headers + HFC + Exhaust + UD Pulley + lightweight flywheel] + Uprev e-tune+ PC680 Odyssey battery + oil cooler + MishimotoThermostat = 312whp + 252wtq @1,500mts or 5,000ft elevation

05-10-2013, 01:14 PM	#127 (permalink)
370zrider Base Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Mexico Posts: 106 Drives: 370zM6tour12nosport Rep Power: 13	I don't remember where I saw that Nissan was targeting Porsche Cayman's performance with the 370z. Just as they did with the GTR beating the 911 turbo. Still there's a huge performance gap . __________________ Stillen [gen3 CAI + headers + HFC + Exhaust + UD Pulley + lightweight flywheel] + Uprev e-tune+ PC680 Odyssey battery + oil cooler + MishimotoThermostat = 312whp + 252wtq @1,500mts or 5,000ft elevation

05-10-2013, 01:44 PM	#130 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	If you've ever driven the two... it's very obvious which car is better... by far. But it's double the freakin' price. cossie1600, b1adesofcha0s and ZMan8 like this. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

05-10-2013, 02:06 PM	#131 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	MR is just more balanced. The Z takes more skill to achieve what the Porsche can. You really gotta become one with the Z. The porsche is effortless driving. Better is subjective to your driving expectations. MR puts up less of a fight, like AWD/FR does. So criticisms of whats better can go on all day if you're driving expectations are high, low, moderate etc But the Porsche undoubtedly has a more refined engine and a more balanced chassis, not to mention a better feeling shifter. The Z feels more aggressive under load, is more fun and leaves a lot less room for error., The porsche is a sword and the Z is a hatchet. But with one swing of both, you can cut anything in half. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

05-10-2013, 02:07 PM	#132 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	I contend that the Z doesn't quite achieve what the Cayman can. It's not that it takes more skill to drive... it just doesn't match it. Period. You have a (relatively) heavy, front-biased car vs. a lighter and much better balanced car. But again... $30k premium. Davey likes this. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

05-09-2013, 09:01 PM	#122 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	Most car companies selling sports car would die for 10K / year.

05-10-2013, 02:27 PM	#134 (permalink)
Davey A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,766 Drives: '15 NISMO 6MT Rep Power: 117171	Stop making me want a Cayman, Steve. b1adesofcha0s likes this.

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