Thinking of getting something cheaper..

jcosta79 · 10-09-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Sorry, the 370Z is not half the car the corvette is in the suspension department.

Nothing about the 370Z is superior to the corvette in the suspension department except for: It has less propensity to wheel-hop, and steering feel, as well as parking-lot turn radius/maneuverability. Those are the only improvements I have noted as compared to my Z06.

I'm not a big fan of leaf spring suspensions. All I can tell you is that when I put coilovers on my car, it transformed the way it handled.

I wonder if there is a big difference in the way the Sport models handle versus the Nismo models? I know the shocks are A LOT stiffer in the Nismos, maybe that with the small aero tweaks make a difference? Not sure.

nmjaxx9 · 10-09-2012, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I have tunnel-vision when it comes to tires. I pushed the 'vettes at Spring Mountain, and the Pilot Sports on those cars were amazing. Great feedback, very predictable, they really let you know where you stood, wet or dry. For that reason, I want them. I know how they "feel". IF I am dissapointed with them, I will wear them out and when they are dead, look elsewhere.

I have a ton of positive things to say about my 370Z. I still own it, yes?

However, when I am ready to trade this car in, I will be leaving Nissan unless certain things change. I will probably go over to BMW or Porsche. I have experienced American sports cars, and found the over-all experience very lacking. I have experienced Japanese sports cars, at least a little, with this 370Z, and I would like to sample what Europe brings to the table, and Mercedes does not offer manuals in America that I know of.

Right now, as it sits today, I cannot think of another new car I would rather have for the cost of my 370Z or less. Yes it has foibles, but its strong points (Style, interior, qa/qc, what performance it does have, affordability for what you get) outweigh its negatives (clunky transmission, bad weight distribution, horrible rebound control, windshield that cracks if you look at it hard).

X2 and that is Ironic coming from a chevy owner,

yes have heard good reviews on PSS as well. And agreed with the last paragraph the Zs have their faults as any car does, but I feel its strong points are a good enough reason to own and drive one...or like you said why else would we be in one?

As far as future choice goes I will almost 95% stick with JDM, I am loyal to em, no change there and that was from day one when I got my altima before my Z. The Nissan 370z is a good car that is both valuable, and like many say the best bang for the buck sports car.

jcosta79 · 10-09-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I will be leaving Nissan unless certain things change. I will probably go over to BMW or Porsche.

Bring LOTS of money. Serious. They are awesome cars, but when things go wrong, it gets expensive really quickly. If you can wrench on the car yourself, that helps a lot. But if not, I suggest you find a good mechanic that you trust and who knows what he is doing first, and then buy a car that he knows how to work on.

Nice thing about American cars is that when things go wrong, parts are cheap and everybody and their mother knows how to work on them. (You can get front brake rotors for a Vette at NAPA for like $28!)

ImportConvert · 10-09-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcosta79

Bring LOTS of money. Serious. They are awesome cars, but when things go wrong, it gets expensive really quickly. If you can wrench on the car yourself, that helps a lot. But if not, I suggest you find a good mechanic that you trust and who knows what he is doing first, and then buy a car that he knows how to work on.

Nice thing about American cars is that when things go wrong, parts are cheap and everybody and their mother knows how to work on them. (You can get front brake rotors for a Vette at NAPA for like $28!)

Please see my above, lol. Yes, I know that BMW is very expensive if anything breaks. Not even the parts always, just the privelidge of swilling their coffee while they work on your vehicle. It is my OPINION that this is why they began including service-plans with Mercedes and then BMW, because people shied away from them a few years ago because of this.

If I buy BMW/Porsche, it will be CPO with an extended warranty. Also, up next is a house, so it won't be for another 5-7 years. I like my 370Z quite enough to keep it that long.

American cars have GREAT! drive-lines now days. Interior bits and pieces are mainly what die in my experience, and if the driveline bits die, it's usually simple and cheap like you say.

OMGiGOTaZ · 10-09-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Please see my above, lol. Yes, I know that BMW is very expensive if anything breaks. Not even the parts always, just the privelidge of swilling their coffee while they work on your vehicle. It is my OPINION that this is why they began including service-plans with Mercedes and then BMW, because people shied away from them a few years ago because of this.

If I buy BMW/Porsche, it will be CPO with an extended warranty. Also, up next is a house, so it won't be for another 5-7 years. I like my 370Z quite enough to keep it that long.

American cars have GREAT! drive-lines now days. Interior bits and pieces are mainly what die in my experience, and if the driveline bits die, it's usually simple and cheap like you say.

How did the "something cheaper" thread turm into talks of BMW and Porsche

ImportConvert · 10-09-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcosta79

I'm not a big fan of leaf spring suspensions. All I can tell you is that when I put coilovers on my car, it transformed the way it handled.

I wonder if there is a big difference in the way the Sport models handle versus the Nismo models? I know the shocks are A LOT stiffer in the Nismos, maybe that with the small aero tweaks make a difference? Not sure.

I doubt Aero matters at the speeds I am talking. I am willing to bet it's the suspension and the tires that are responsible for our differing opinions.

I really liked the leaf-spring setup. It worked very well. Well enough to set world records around the 'ring. My only complaint was that it managed torque/wheel-hop very poorly compared to coil-overs.

Shocks alone are supposed to do a lot on the corvettes. I kept mine stock so I wouldn't know. The leaf-spring really isn't a bad setup from the technical standpoint. I liked how it performed, as well. It was very progressive regarding how it loaded up. I liked that. Not "bouncy" at all. Like you noted, it felt "floaty" compared to my 370Z, but it was very much in control, much better contact with the road than my 370Z even though it felt like it floated. I loved it.

I think it felt that way because over small bumps that upset my 370Z, the leaf barely flexed, didn't load up much, and the suspension did the work without involving the body of the car so much, so it felt like it floated, but really, I was just more isolated from minor pavement irregularities. My Dad hates that about my 370Z. Says every time we take a cornering bridge the front-end jumps to the side every time we go over an expansion joint. I kindof feel what he means, but it must be worse from the passenger seat. That was actually his first comment about it on a technical level "Your Z06 didn't do that. I do NOT like it."

jcosta79 · 10-09-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

It is my OPINION that this is why they began including service-plans with Mercedes and then BMW, because people shied away from them a few years ago because of this.

You can pretty much count that as fact. Even Ferrari now has free 7 year maintenance on their new 458's.

ImportConvert · 10-09-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMGiGOTaZ

How did the "something cheaper" thread turm into talks of BMW and Porsche

E46. Still an ultimate driving machine.

ImportConvert · 10-09-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmjaxx9

X2 and that is Ironic coming from a chevy owner,

yes have heard good reviews on PSS as well. And agreed with the last paragraph the Zs have their faults as any car does, but I feel its strong points are a good enough reason to own and drive one...or like you said why else would we be in one?

As far as future choice goes I will almost 95% stick with JDM, I am loyal to em, no change there and that was from day one when I got my altima before my Z. The Nissan 370z is a good car that is both valuable, and like many say the best bang for the buck sports car.

Noone from Nissan corporate has ever bought me supper. I'll buy what I think is the best fit for me at the time. I try very hard to "call it like I see it" when it comes to product reviews. I don't emotionally identify with my cars anymore, although I certainly used to in my early 20's/late teens. Now, it's land/house, lol. Also getting into class III weaponry, etc. The 370Z makes that a bit more affordable than the Z06 did. Especially the house/land stuff, since loans are based on D/I. I did not get rid of it thinking that, but now that I have sold it, I am thinking about it.

nmjaxx9 · 10-09-2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Noone from Nissan corporate has ever bought me supper. I'll buy what I think is the best fit for me at the time. I try very hard to "call it like I see it" when it comes to product reviews. I don't emotionally identify with my cars anymore, although I certainly used to in my early 20's/late teens. Now, it's land/house, lol. Also getting into class III weaponry, etc. The 370Z makes that a bit more affordable than the Z06 did. Especially the house/land stuff, since loans are based on D/I. I did not get rid of it thinking that, but now that I have sold it, I am thinking about it.

Yeah priorities over wants-needs, finding a way to balance both is the the best of both worlds, although it always involves compromises such as in your situation.

nmjaxx9 · 10-09-2012, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMGiGOTaZ

How did the "something cheaper" thread turm into talks of BMW and Porsche

Because threads always get derailed, 200 posts you should know that by now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

E46. Still an ultimate driving machine.

cossie1600 · 10-09-2012, 11:33 PM

The problem is the stupid tires Nissan put on the car, the GY that came on the Corvette are better tires. Many of us have driven over 100mph at the track with non OEM tires in the rain, we didn't spin and whine about it after.

You had a $60K, that's why it handled better than the Z. The weight distribution played a very small role in it

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

My 370Z is crap in the rain. I spun out on the freeway with 9/32 left on the tires while doing the same speed as surrounding traffic. Sorry, the 370Z is not half the car the corvette is in the suspension department. Anything over about 55 and it hydroplanes. I have a 2012 Sport model. I did not know a modern car could BE this pathetic when it comes to handling rain on the OEM tires unless you count the ACR Viper or something on DOT's.

Nothing about the 370Z is superior to the corvette in the suspension department except for: It has less propensity to wheel-hop, and steering feel, as well as parking-lot turn radius/maneuverability. Those are the only improvements I have noted as compared to my Z06. Base C6 without Z51 felt very planted to me, and I beat on Grand Sports doing over 120mph down the back stretch of Spring Mountain and they (Z51 suspension, basically) felt great as well.

Performance-wise, it feels very bad in corners, comparatively. 55/45 (what it REALLY is, yes, I weighed it on DOT scales that do biasing) is crap for performance driving. That is weight distribution though, not suspension. The bad part is when you hit an irregularity and the pogo-stick at each corner upsets the whole car.

I still like my 370Z better than my C6Z06 as a car I drive on the street, but the suspension is horrible, the weight distribution reminds me of my 1980's 5.0, and the OEM tires...I don't drive in the rain above 50-55mph anymore. Period. I slowly worked up to that 55mph limit during light rain on open roads, that is where the OEM tires with good tread begin to lose contact with the road and steering input becomes iffy if you hit any water what-so-ever. I'm not talking puddles, I'm just talking rain coming down and running down the crown of the road in any significant quantity (if you can see it, it's too much to hit at over 55!!!). As it is, If I ever see the sheen of water on the road too late to drop under about 55, I just point the car straight and try to be calm so that when I get control back, I am still pointed the right direction. I leave 10 minutes early for work when it's raining.

I never drove my Z06 in the rain, it was a toy. I cannot comment on that. I did drive my WS.6 in the rain, though, and it was rock solid. Even my old highschool car, a crown-vic, on bald tires was more solid. My G20 was more solid. I have literally never owned or been in a car that was crappier to drive in the rain than my 370Z Sport w/OEM tires. Ever. Crown Vic with no tread up front, WS.6 with no tread up front (when you're broke in school, tires are the last thing on your list). None of them would lose it like this 370 on Potenzas.

Like I tell people, this is my luxury car with a little pep. I don't consider it a performance automobile, just luxury "with a bit of edge". Hell, I already warped the rotors in it at 10K miles and had to have them turned. All street driving and my front tires still have over 1/2 the tread left on them.

I'm sorry, but no. I cannot tell you my 370Z Sport is anything near what my Z06 or any other corvette I have driven (Grand Sport, ZR1) in the suspension department.

Planned fixes: Tires that aren't crap. Don't drive the 370Z like it's a 'vette and you won't end up in the ditch. It can't handle sweeping corners. It's meant for short, tight corners. Long corners are bad in this car. You have to accelerate to balance the 370Z, and you can easily run out of lateral traction, or you will have a low exit velocity...or you can hit it JUUUSSTTT right...but you have to do EVERYTHING perfectly.

I'm sorry, I hate the way this car handles compared to a true sports car. I still love the interior, looks, and the acceleration and brakes are plenty good for the street as long as they don't warp on me again. But the handling is very disappointing in every way unless you are on a very "tight" series of corners. I think that's how all Japanese cars are, though, or most of them. That's just how those people do things. American cars are great in high-speed sweepers and on the open road, Japanese cars are meant for those tight little technical type tracks/corners.

Since I am moving to NW Arkansas, I hope to be in the 370Z's element, though, with the tighter corners, and with the smoother roads there, plus better tires, a lot of my complaints will dissappear.

I hate somewhat going so bluntly against your opinions, but they are polar opposites to mine. Maybe the ADVAN tires on your NISMO are way better than the Potenza's on the Sport model, and maybe the stiffer suspension keeps it from feeling like a pregnant yak in corners with the front plowing unless you're on the throttle pretty good.

ImportConvert · 10-10-2012, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

The problem is the stupid tires Nissan put on the car, the GY that came on the Corvette are better tires. Many of us have driven over 100mph at the track with non OEM tires in the rain, we didn't spin and whine about it after.

You had a $60K, that's why it handled better than the Z. The weight distribution played a very small role in it

I wasn't a fan of the OEM Goodyear's, but we agree, the problem is the tire. I don't think the 370Z is "special" in some way that causes it to not be controllable in the rain, and I believe I stated as much.

The base C6 and C5 have the same handling characteristics/distribution as the rest of the line and breed. They cost much less than $60K. I could have gotten a base C6 with 2LT package for about the same as I paid for my 370Z. Cost is a poor argument for the weight distribution.

jcosta79 · 10-10-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

Many of us have driven over 100 mph at the track with non OEM tires in the rain, we didn't spin and whine about it after.

I nominate this for post of the year.

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-17-2012, 06:39 PM

Z tires aren't that great for high performance driving... but street and rain? I can do almost anything i do in dry that i do in wet. The tire itself has some general weaknesses, but none that affect it's dry/wet stability.

May be driver error or just being too used to driving a different platform. It happens SOMETIMES going from one type of car to the next. The Z and vette may be both 2 seat sport cars. But are two totally different animals. From purpose to suspensions, power to weight distribtion, steering feel. Both have there strengths and weaknesses. It's more about what you are built for in the sports car arena. You may be built for a vette but a Z suspension may not fit your personal driving characteristics. IT MAY may take time to get used to the Z or, the feel of it may become less appealing as time goes on. Or as you recall more robust power and even lower slung more aggressive driving experience and eventually find the Z to be nothing more than a nice interior??? Which the latter seems to be very true from looking at your posts.

OR

*Check your throttle in rain. The Z's hesitation in acceleration following a sudden burst due to over-pressing the throttle may cause driver error in the rain. Throttle response sucks in the stock Z and may cause driver error if you don't respect and acknowledge this weakness Resolve it with intake and possibly exhaust... depending on your throttle response preference. Or buy a used sprint booster.

Most rain issues in the Z are driver error.

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10-17-2012, 06:39 PM	#45 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	Z tires aren't that great for high performance driving... but street and rain? I can do almost anything i do in dry that i do in wet. The tire itself has some general weaknesses, but none that affect it's dry/wet stability. May be driver error or just being too used to driving a different platform. It happens SOMETIMES going from one type of car to the next. The Z and vette may be both 2 seat sport cars. But are two totally different animals. From purpose to suspensions, power to weight distribtion, steering feel. Both have there strengths and weaknesses. It's more about what you are built for in the sports car arena. You may be built for a vette but a Z suspension may not fit your personal driving characteristics. IT MAY may take time to get used to the Z or, the feel of it may become less appealing as time goes on. Or as you recall more robust power and even lower slung more aggressive driving experience and eventually find the Z to be nothing more than a nice interior??? Which the latter seems to be very true from looking at your posts. OR *Check your throttle in rain. The Z's hesitation in acceleration following a sudden burst due to over-pressing the throttle may cause driver error in the rain. Throttle response sucks in the stock Z and may cause driver error if you don't respect and acknowledge this weakness Resolve it with intake and possibly exhaust... depending on your throttle response preference. Or buy a used sprint booster. Most rain issues in the Z are driver error.