Dealership new scam?!?, NADA/Blue book/black book value
 

I was attempting to buy a car today. In my prior experiences, blue book was useless as their trade in value is always too high and no dealers would come close to it. Black book and NADA are much closer to what the cars would sell for (most banks use NADA to determine your max. loan value). Lately whenever I go into the dealership, they always seem to reference the blue book when it comes to the value. Of course when I went to the dealership today, they offered me what the blue book offered (on the extreme low side, but whatever). What I don't understand is why the sudden change? I also don't understand how the blue book is actually lower than the black book/NADA (retail value is higher though). Upon more comparison between the three, i noticed KBB has the lowest trade in value while one of the higher in retail value. I don't know if they are just being conservative or the dealers got to them and started getting them to change their numbers since a lot of consumers were using that number. What do you guys think?

2009 370z with 20K miles with sport package 6 spd (I am not selling my car, just as a reference)

Average Condition
KBB Trade In = $22,804
NADA Trade In = $23,925
Black Book Trade In=$23,100

Good Condition (Let's assume the dealer used good even though a lot of used cars are beat)
KBB Retail = $28,634
NADA Retail = $28,025
Black Book Retail= $28,200

Its also a puzzle to me how they come up with such numbers.

Maybe use it as a bench mark for negotiating. Get the lowest price for average and the highest price for good. Then haggle between that range...Depending on how you judge the condition of the car.

Most used car dealers can afford to give 2k drop on the asking price but sometimes they have a 3 to 5K spread.

I am just going to give up on it. The car I want is too much and my car isn't worth enough, the gap is too big to even think about it. I will live :)

What car were you looking at buying?

A Lexus

When I traded my Z06 in, the trade value they gave me was "based off of what we can sell it for. We called a few other dealers in our auto group in Houston, etc. to see what they are getting for them."

I thought it made sense, and got a fair trade for my Z06. It worked out to within about $1500 of what Lou was going to sell me a 370Z for, except since I bought in-state, I didn't have to pay TT&L on my 370Z.

$57,800 owed on my Z06 = Paid off.
$43K sticker on my 370Z = I paid it.

Going rate for my Z06 based on market research I did, and what i could buy one for tomorrow, as of then: $52-54K.

They ate in trade-in nearly what I ate paying MSRP.


Why did I trade so early? I wanted a 370Z. Period.

Why not keep the Z06 longer, until I was right-side-up in it?

Depreciation happens regardless. I would have lost the same, except it would have been more time, and more interest added to it. Why wait? The only people that makes sense to is people who have some myopic view of things as an "immediate". I got into the car for a helluva good price, and got out of it for a decent price. Keeping it for 3 years so I could be shown + value on it would have only given the dealership more leverage over me, and I would have gotten less for it, paid more interest, etc. The only advantage would have been saying "They paid me more than I owed! YAY!"...a privilege you pay for for those 3 years leading up to it.

I used what I owed on it as leverage. "I will pay you sticker, if you pay my trade off, and I don't care what you show me in what column to arrive at that juncture." They made maybe $1K over invoice unless they found a sucker (which they didn't, it was sold to a dealer in Houston, and I know who bought it).

For trade-in on my 370Z, I got what they (CarMax) were "willing to offer me", which was $25.5k for a 2010 Base 370Z w/ sports package with ~17k miles. I owed a little over that, so I took a small "bath". The trade-in amount I received seemed decent, considering the car had $3,000 worth of custom audio work installed. The next owner of this car will really enjoy the sound system. :tup:

I just found it odd that the KBB had a dramatic change in terms of the figures, my conspiracy theory side tells me that the dealership association stuff their pockets and got them to fudge the numbers a little.....

I really don't have a problem with what they are offering me except they are offering me less than the below average condition even though the car is cleaner than the "certified" used cars they are selling. Anyway I am not going to budge at all, they can wait for their next sucker

I explained this before no dealer is going to pay you more than wholesale for your car, in the bottom end result of the sales transaction.

To determine dealer wholesale price simply subtract the retail price from the trade in price and then note the result, this will give you the range.

You then subtract the range from the trade in price and this will give you what the dealer is actually giving you for your car.

Example $25,000 retail
_ $20,000 trade in
_______________________
= $5,000 price range

Now subtract $20,000 trade in

_ $5000 price range
______________________________

= $15,000 actual dealer wholesale cost

If your trading in your car on a new model you also need to know the bottom line clean cash deal the dealer would sell you the new car for.

You then subtract the wholesale dealer price for your trade, from the lowest clean deal price on the new car, this will give you what the exact cash value of your trade and price of the new car.

I definitely got more than wholesale for my Z06.

Amount owed: 57,800 (Excellent KBB Trade-in is $55,150)
Amount paid for 370Z: $43,500 (Invoice @ $39,000, sticker $43,000+$500 transport)

They MAY have made around a grand or so off of me, but I got my TT&L for free because I traded to a dealer in-state, and in my state, if you don't, you pay TT&L on your new car. Since my old car was worth more than my new one, I paid 0 TT&L. Worth a fair amount. Far more than $1-1500 or so.

Wrong. I got the higher-end of book values for my last three cars: 2006 350Z, 2005 Audi A6 4.2, and a 2001 Maxima SE.

Wrong ! You believe they gave you more for your trade in than wholesale, because of the false inflated figure they listed for trade in value of your used car.

Bottom line is what the actual dealer cost of the new car is and what you paid the dealer plus your trade in.

Can you support your statement on any of your last purchases, just post the a copy of the sales contract, showing dates and prices paid. Just blot out the personal info.

No, I know it for a fact because of how many auctions I've been to in the tri-state area with friends. And looking at average auction sales for cars like mine from the past month or two before sale. If there's one thing I'm good at, it's busting dealership balls and never letting them think they have anything over me.

Auction prices are B.S. the only prices you concern yourself with are wholesale, trade in , retail , and what a private sale might bring you.

Auction prices are only really good for evaluating classic or collector cars.

Example you trade your six month old 2012 370z on a new 2013 Z to a Nissan dealer. No dealer is going to pay you more than what they could get a new one or a used one at wholesale cost from either another dealer or Nissan.

You may think you got more for trade on paper, but in reality, its really the dealer that made out not you.

My last cars all of the dealers sold for less than $1500 profit...and I got my new cars at or below invoice.

But whatever, dude. I'm not going to argue with me. I got what I thought was fair for all my previous rides. Everyone was happy.