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crazyyankfan 04-15-2012 05:38 PM

BRZ vs 370Z vs MX-5 Review
 
http://http://www.autocar.co.uk/News...llCars/262247/

What do you guys think of this review? I don't know, but doesn't it seem a little bias?

Quote:

Subaru BRZ vs Nissan 370Z vs Mazda MX-5

12 April 2012

Is the simple Subaru BRZ as effective on the road as early reports suggest it is on track? Matt Saunders finds the answer on the Route Napoleon, with an MX-5 and 370Z in tow.

We’ve come to the Cote d’Azur to find out one thing. Has the Subaru BRZ earned its place at the top table alongside the likes of the Mazda RX-7, Nissan 200SX and Toyota Supra.

All the early signs have been good. Handling-related superlatives flowed after a track test in a prototype last year; just as they did after a circuit session in the Toyota GT 86. But you couldn’t say for sure without spending time on really testing roads, could you? Preferably with a couple of other modern Japanese sporting greats along for the ride.

And with the promise of a BRZ on the mountain roads of the Cote d’Azur, a pair of modern Japanese sporting greats is exactly what we’ve lined up.

The inclusion of the Mazda MX-5 is justified not only by the uncomplicated amusement value it offers, but also by the fact that it is the world’s biggest-selling sports car. If the Subaru can match the Mazda’s for smiles-per-pounds-spent, it’ll be doing very well indeed.

Mirroring that ‘less is more’ appeal is the Nissan 370Z, which remains one of very few sub-£30k, six-pot, rear-drive performance cars on offer. Could it confirm nagging doubts that the Toyobaru’s 197bhp, four cylinders and 7.5sec 0-60mph aren’t sufficient?

How it came to be?

Although both Subaru and Toyota would take credit for the originality and authenticity of their sports car, the fact is neither company could have produced it on its own.

Four years ago, Toyota had the will, the vision and the investment. But nowhere to build it and no capacity to develop it beforehand. Subaru had the production and engineering facilities, many of the mechanical building blocks you’d need for a great sporting rear-driver and the desire for the brand development that such a car could achieve. But without greater potential sales volume, it could never have made the sums work.

Then in 2007, Katsuaki Watanabe, ex-president of Toyota secretly met with Ikuo Mori, president of Subaru parent Fuji Heavy Industries. In 2008, as Toyota announced an increase in its minority stake in FHI, the Toyobaru plan went public. Toyota would design the car, and put up the lion’s share of the finances; Subaru would engineer and develop it, and produce it at its plant in Gunma. They would develop their own marketing strategies, but Toyota’s bigger cash pot would deliver them the majority of production.

That’s how Subaru ended up with a sports car that looks unlike anything else in its line-up – exactly like a modern Toyota sports coupé, in fact. It does have one of Subaru’s inimitable throbbing boxer engines under bonnet; an engine with a massive influence over the motive character of the BRZ. Its

size, shape, location and output all make contributions to a dynamic repertoire that makes this car as distinctive as it is effective on the road.

But before probe at the periphery of its range of abilities, there are some static considerations understand. As much as lightness and compactness are key in the modern car-making business, they are also BRZ cornerstones. It measures 4240mm from nose to tail, so it’s within a foot of the length of the Mazda MX-5. More remarkable still, it weighs just 1202kg, or 1239kg if you go for a Premium version like our test car. Our diminutive 2.0-litre MX-5 Coupé Cabriolet – a car held as the most convincing argument for lightness and simplicity in a mass-market sports car – is heavier than our test BRZ by around 10kg.

Our 370Z carries a penalty of almost 300kg compared with the BRZ – something its brawny V6 and wide, 18-inch tyres may struggle to cover.

Equally confusing is the BRZ is the only four-seater here. They’re usable, too; big enough for a medium-sized adult on a short hop, which seems a bit of a masterstroke in a car with a longways engine, driven rear wheels and the same wheelbase as a Mini Clubman.

The front seats are comfortable for touring yet supportive for hard driving, and its seating position is spot on. You don’t feel constrained in it, as bigger drivers will in the Mazda. Unlike in the Nissan, the pedal and wheel positioning is absolutely perfect.

The BRZ’s fascia is functional but does the car credit. It escapes a bargain-basement feel with a tactile sculptural platform of a dashboard, and some uncomplicated, modern design on the climate control console and in the instrument cluster. The Nissan’s feels like a more stylish and special, whereas the Mazda’s is showing its age. But rich and stylish cabin ambience has never been what the MX-5 is all about, and the BRZ just feels like a slightly larger and newer car from the same mould.

In search of fun

This Subaru is a slow-burner, and in more than one sense. Crawling and bumbling around city streets en route to the epic Route Napoleon, it does little to pique your fun receptors. It’s an easy car to drive, and fairly comfortable. The chassis is firm but quiet and the damping is a bit hard-nosed over uneven town asphalt, but it’s compliant enough most of the time. Despite its offbeat growl, that atmospheric boxer engine doesn’t serve the kind of torque to make the car hint at the amusement you might be having elsewhere. Which is something the Nissan is very adept at.

There are signs – telltale suggestions of the restrained athlete you’ve yet to reveal. The BRZ’s power steering is one of them. It’s medium heavy, but even around urban bends and roundabouts, it provides immaculate feedback from the front tyres direct to your palms. You know exactly how much you’re asking those contact patches to do, and how much they could offer. The brake pedal feel is excellent; progressive, easy to modulate, strong but not over-assisted. Proper sports car brakes, these.

When you leave the urban grind and the road empties and starts to climb, however, you’re worried about only one thing: is it quick enough?

The Zed certainly is. You don’t need much more than 3000rpm before the Nissan’s 3.7-litre V6 hurls this long-nosed throwback forward with inscrutable urgency. It’d bolt away from the other two cars down any straight, and on less perfidious old mountain roads than these, it would quite soon be in a completely different département altogether.

But Nissan’s Z-car has always monstered its opposition on bang for your buck. It’s grip, delicacy and composure that it lacks. Should a 370Z appear in the rear-view mirror of your Subaru BRZ, you’ve got every chance of keeping it there providing you’re on the right road. And you’ll have a whale of a time in the process.

The Subaru needs to be wound to at least 5000rpm before the car will lunge onward like a fully-fledged performance car. Below that, you could even be overtaken by a mid-range Peugeot 205.

Above that, with peak torque chiming in between 6400rpm and 6600rpm, Subaru’s flat four takes is fizzy and flamboyant. Enough to excite the BRZ’s driver and enliven its chassis. Enough to make our little Mazda feel distinctly lower-rung, even though it’s still rewarding. But not so much to make you feel irresponsible about giving the BRZ its head on the road.

Exercising the same commitment corner after corner, you discover all that fuss was 100 per cent deserved. A low centre of gravity means roll control is first rate. That enhances the sense of accuracy you get from the BRZ’s steering, and contributes to balance and agility of genuinely breathtaking order. Turn-in is instinctive. The BRZ takes no time to settle into a steady cornering state, even under high lateral loads. The engine’s linear power curve gets together with the torque-sensing limited-slip differential to allow you to play with the car’s cornering attitude in a spellbindingly delicate and precise fashion.

This is a sports car first and a fast car second – which is refreshing to report. While the BRZ’s limits are impressive, it’s more the breadth and habitability of the margins of its handling that end up holding your imagination hostage. You don’t need to goad it. Just drive it with the same smooth composure and exactness that characterises the car vividly. Once you’re on terms with it, it becomes playful, subtle and totally beguiling. You can’t help falling for it.

Neither the 370Z nor the MX-5 can thrill at that level. Compared to Subaru, they look like blunt, dull communicators here, outclassed by a new affordable driver’s car of amazing delicacy and extraordinary talent. One that could be the best sports car to come out of Japan since the Honda NSX, and that must be worth £25k from anyone who knows what sunny weekends and great roads were really made for.

kenchan 04-15-2012 05:40 PM

kinda like comparing an orange, apple, and tangerine.

shadoquad 04-15-2012 06:39 PM

I don't trust mag reviews. They're full of crap.

Spikuh 04-15-2012 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 1664915)
kinda like comparing an orange, apple, and tangerine.

:iagree:

All very different cars for different purposes despite there being some level overlap.

Isamu 04-15-2012 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh (Post 1665093)
:iagree:

All very different cars for different purposes despite there being some level overlap.

:excited::iagree:

mjd77 04-15-2012 08:39 PM

I'm not sure I've ever seen a new vehicle hyped like this BRZ...I still believe after the initial wave of demand is met, dealers won't be able to get rid of them.

Red__Zed 04-15-2012 08:46 PM

in before the lock for posting a comparo that the 370z doesn't win.

shadoquad 04-15-2012 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1665338)
in before the lock for posting a comparo that the 370z doesn't win.

Has the 370z ever won a comparo in a major mag?

Most of them bang it over its niggling issues that can be fixed with maybe 2k in mods.

Red__Zed 04-15-2012 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad (Post 1665409)
Has the 370z ever won a comparo in a major mag?

Most of them bang it over its niggling issues that can be fixed with maybe 2k in mods.

beat the 2010 mustang. which is why there are like 9000 threads about it.

shadoquad 04-15-2012 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1665424)
beat the 2010 mustang. which is why there are like 9000 threads about it.

:icon18: Oh yeah, I forgot. Well, have they improved the Mustang since then? Probably not a whole lot, right? :bowrofl:

Red__Zed 04-15-2012 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad (Post 1665428)
:icon18: Oh yeah, I forgot. Well, have they improved the Mustang since then? Probably not a whole lot, right? :bowrofl:

:icon17::icon17:


http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-g...3-11-09-a.html

I actually think this is the only comparo thread still open.

Isamu 04-15-2012 09:28 PM

IBTL oh wait, I was in here already

LakeShow 04-16-2012 12:47 AM

IBTL, VTECH makes all those cars look stupid, including Mustangs.

bvl 04-16-2012 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 1664915)
kinda like comparing an orange, apple, and tangerine.

I'd liken it to a orange, tangerine and clementine.

So what 3 rear drive sports car/coupes for 30Kish would you put into a
comparison? Genesis is the only other model I can think OTTOMH to include and its not known as a world class *handler*. 2 of the 3 cars are with the third being hailed as well balanced. The germans would be 40-60K.

The miata is a bit of the odd duck here (pretty sure they evaluated the PRT, heaviest model) though its track record of being a well balanced package makes sense to give them a baseline.

The Z almost takes on the american car position of past: for similar price you get a much bigger engine.

I own and enjoy my Z...but its not perfect. I can see how it would not win a comparison from most major car magazines. They tend to focus in this segment on package, balance, and performance. Balance is good in the Z but there are some niggling things that make other cars a better package to those magazine folks (who often ignore price, ala Cayman)

You are not going to correct the engine quirks for 2K of bolt ons unfortunately. For a pure sports car, the engine loses major points above 5K. And given the price point and comparison, the engine is one thing that is supposed to shine.

That's a fact, jack.

- b

Lug 04-16-2012 08:40 AM

To sum up, the BRZ is to the 370Z what the 370Z is to the Mustang. :D

Spikuh 04-16-2012 09:31 AM

Friend of mine suggested a more apt comparison would be the now discontinued RX-8. Similar weight, weight distribution, back seat, etc. Made a lot of sense to me.

crazyyankfan 04-16-2012 12:04 PM

Personally, I really don't understand what this BRZ/FR-S hype is all about. Probably cuz the sudden comeback of Toyota 86? I'm not saying it's a bad car. I just don't think that all the sudden Toyota make a sports car better than any others on the market, not to mention they haven't made any decent sports car for quite a while.

So ppl are thinking that Toyota suddenly came out with this new sports car and it's automatically better than Z? which Nissan certainly has been more legendary in making sports cars than Toyota

Roadster4Us 04-16-2012 12:11 PM

Easy for me...

I buy what I want and what I like and could care less what others think, unless of course they want to purchase the car for me. :tiphat:

DarkJak 04-16-2012 12:46 PM

I feel like they are shortchanging the Z in the handling department.

Apparently our cars lack grip and composure. I dunno bout the base Z's, but the sport package tire/suspension setup grips hard. Number-wise, I haven't read an article that puts the BRZ as being grippier than the Z. Still haven't driven one though, so I'll have to save my final opinion till this summer.

bvl 04-16-2012 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJak (Post 1666693)
I feel like they are shortchanging the Z in the handling department.

Apparently our cars lack grip and composure. I dunno bout the base Z's, but the sport package tire/suspension setup grips hard. Number-wise, I haven't read an article that puts the BRZ as being grippier than the Z. Still haven't driven one though, so I'll have to save my final opinion till this summer.

Its not always about ultimate grip but feel and how the car responds at the edge.

The Z's VCS is extremely abrupt with no settings. Any arguments? Didn't think so :)

But if a car is tossable, and easy to drive at the limits to push the slip angles in an easily controlled way, it can be a lot more fun to some. Ref: Z06 vs base Vette with MR suspension driven at 80-90%.

As to the hype...<puts on movie guy voice>

In a world full of boring sedans, sports cutes, and trucks ^D^D^D^D^D SUVs, two companies defy the business odds by releasing a 25K RWD sports coupe that has limited practicality.

When was the last time this happened? 350Z and RX-8 intros come to mind.

Its been a while.

- b

Spikuh 04-16-2012 02:41 PM

^^ Combative much? :icon14:

Red__Zed 04-16-2012 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvl (Post 1666866)
Its not always about ultimate grip but feel and how the car responds at the edge.

The Z's VCS is extremely abrupt with no settings. Any arguments? Didn't think so :)

But if a car is tossable, and easy to drive at the limits to push the slip angles in an easily controlled way, it can be a lot more fun to some. Ref: Z06 vs base Vette with MR suspension driven at 80-90%.

As to the hype...<puts on movie guy voice>

In a world full of boring sedans, sports cutes, and trucks ^D^D^D^D^D SUVs, two companies defy the business odds by releasing a 25K RWD sports coupe that has limited practicality.

When was the last time this happened? 350Z and RX-8 intros come to mind.

Its been a while.

- b


Pretty much this. Raw grip isn't everything.

ZMan8 04-16-2012 03:22 PM

Is it me or is the writer of this article a huge BRZ :nutswinger:

Quote:

Compared to Subaru, they look like blunt, dull communicators here, outclassed by a new affordable driver’s car of amazing delicacy and extraordinary talent. One that could be the best sports car to come out of Japan since the Honda NSX, and that must be worth £25k from anyone who knows what sunny weekends and great roads were really made for.
hes making it seems like the Z and mx-5 are minivans being compared to a sports car. the article is not written with an objective mind imo and it seems the hype has gotten the best of this writer.

I'm not saying Z>all or anything of that nature, but to say the BRZ is best since NSX to come out of japan....R34 Skyline, TT Supra, GTR, 3 generations of Z's, RX-7 just to name a few.

SMJane_Again 04-16-2012 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMan8 (Post 1667042)
Is it me or is the writer of this article a huge BRZ :nutswinger:



hes making it seems like the Z and mx-5 are minivans being compared to a sports car. the article is not written with an objective mind imo and it seems the hype has gotten the best of this writer.

I'm not saying Z>all or anything of that nature, but to say the BRZ is best since NSX to come out of japan....R34 Skyline, TT Supra, GTR, 3 generations of Z's, RX-7 just to name a few.

A lot of reviews that have this type of comparo plays to the Law of Recency- basically, the newest thing is foremost in one's mind. It shows here, especially when you read between the lines. A couple of things the author said stood out for me, things like (paraphrased): "have to rev it over 5500 rpm," "would get left behind by a Peugeot 205," "on the right road it could keep the 370z behind it," and so on. What this tells me is the Subaru/Scion cars generate an experience incredibly specific to the type of driving being done, and it's on the consumer to decide if they want that level of specificity.

In the mountain biking world, we have an acronym that's thrown around a lot- "JRA": Just Riding Along. JRA accounts for anywhere between 50 and 95% of a given trail ride, it's just a fact of life. The fun bits unfortunately aren't usually the main part of any ride. For most of us who love driving, the same thing is true. Most of our time driving is on less-than-thrilling roads where the curves aren't endless and tight, where timely acceleration in traffic and from a stoplight matter, where grunt and grip are significantly more important than handling "on the limit." In other words, what I took from the article was that if you want a car for that 5% of your driving time (and don't live at a high elevation) the BRZ/FR-S is right for you. If you'd rather have a car less specialized and more capable for the other 95% of the time, it has to be the Z.

S.

crazyyankfan 04-16-2012 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMan8 (Post 1667042)
Is it me or is the writer of this article a huge BRZ :nutswinger:



hes making it seems like the Z and mx-5 are minivans being compared to a sports car. the article is not written with an objective mind imo and it seems the hype has gotten the best of this writer.

I'm not saying Z>all or anything of that nature, but to say the BRZ is best since NSX to come out of japan....R34 Skyline, TT Supra, GTR, 3 generations of Z's, RX-7 just to name a few.

Exactly, this writer is talking about BRZ/FR-S like it's the best Japanese sports car ever made in recent year. Duh.........

bvl 04-17-2012 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMan8 (Post 1667042)
Is it me or is the writer of this article a huge BRZ :nutswinger:



hes making it seems like the Z and mx-5 are minivans being compared to a sports car. the article is not written with an objective mind imo and it seems the hype has gotten the best of this writer.

I'm not saying Z>all or anything of that nature, but to say the BRZ is best since NSX to come out of japan....R34 Skyline, TT Supra, GTR, 3 generations of Z's, RX-7 just to name a few.

I am not saying I agree 100% with the writers opinion. I am saying I think I understand where they are coming from.

Z32/Supra/3000GT were the pig triplets. Technology fun for the time absolutely, but they were all heavy cars with turbos. The FD was not a pig (and one of the all time classic looking cars IMHO) but its design had more then a few problems with maintenance.

The NSX was a few things. At the time it was an affordable exotic (something we all wish the R35 stayed true to but the Yen/Dollar is preventing that).

But mostly, it was a high RPM well balanced package that actually was underpowered *compared to the competition*. The 3.0 and later 3.2 Honda engine was never a stump puller.

Is it a great comparison? Arguably not of course. I think its not a bad one however in that there hasn't been a new RWD platform outside of the Genesis in quite some time, has there?

In the segment of sports coupes (which was alive and flourishing in the 80/90's but to me has died off in the last 10 years), the BRZ is very interesting. Compare it to some of its peers (including V6 cars) and then think about 1990 and driving an NSX compared to say a Vette or a 911.

It gives us all something to talk about, if nothing else. :driving:

- b

shadoquad 04-17-2012 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvl (Post 1668472)
The NSX was a few things. At the time it was an affordable exotic (something we all wish the R35 stayed true to but the Yen/Dollar is preventing that).

I know this is off-topic, but the R35 is as close to affordable exotic as the NSX was, if we're talking about initial MSRP. The NSX was always expensive. 60-90k in 1990's money. True, that's cheaper than its competition, but the R35 has remained around the 80-100k price point these days. It's about the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvl
two companies defy the business odds by releasing a 25K RWD sports coupe that has limited practicality.

They have a business case in mind. As with most manufacturers, they are making these sports cars to draw people into the showroom and look at the boring minivans and midsize grocery getters that the people are actually shopping for. Even if they take a loss, the volume of Camry and Legacy sales will more than make up for it.


Back to the article, I am excited for the BRZ/FRS to come out, but I don't like the hyperbole in the article about how it's just so much better than the Miata and Z. Edging them out narrowly I could believe, but with this much hype thrown in, I'll believe it when I see it. I'm thinking Subaru threw Autocar some serious ad dollars for this.

Compdoc777 04-17-2012 07:56 AM

I am at loss on that one how can they say that this car will keep pace with 200 HP and a 170 lbs of torque at the crank? Even at 2500lbs which I doubt. The 18" on that car will slow it down. I thought this was a direct injected turbo car like the wrx or sti. This a n/a 2.0... It may be able to carve some corners and it is a great looking car, own a 370z? Maybe one stuck in first gear. Now put the sti motor in that car and I am selling my Z.

ZMan8 04-17-2012 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad (Post 1668496)
I know this is off-topic, but the R35 is as close to affordable exotic as the NSX was, if we're talking about initial MSRP. The NSX was always expensive. 60-90k in 1990's money. True, that's cheaper than its competition, but the R35 has remained around the 80-100k price point these days. It's about the same.



They have a business case in mind. As with most manufacturers, they are making these sports cars to draw people into the showroom and look at the boring minivans and midsize grocery getters that the people are actually shopping for. Even if they take a loss, the volume of Camry and Legacy sales will more than make up for it.


Back to the article, I am excited for the BRZ/FRS to come out, but I don't like the hyperbole in the article about how it's just so much better than the Miata and Z. Edging them out narrowly I could believe, but with this much hype thrown in, I'll believe it when I see it. I'm thinking Subaru threw Autocar some serious ad dollars for this.

:iagree:

Spikuh 04-17-2012 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvl (Post 1668472)
In the segment of sports coupes (which was alive and flourishing in the 80/90's but to me has died off in the last 10 years), the BRZ is very interesting. Compare it to some of its peers (including V6 cars) and then think about 1990 and driving an NSX compared to say a Vette or a 911.

It gives us all something to talk about, if nothing else. :driving:

- b

I pretty much agree with everything you said, but my comment is about comparing the BRZ to its peer group. Naturally, this is just my opinion. :icon17:

As far as I can tell, the BRZ does not really have a peer group that it directly compares against. Of the vehicles in production for the US market, there is the Gencoupe 2.0T and I think that is largely it for 4-cylinder, 2-door, RWD setup, although the Gencoupe is quite a bit heavier skewing the comparison some. This is why I think it gets compared to the Z so much, which (to me) makes no real sense for two reasons.

First, if you compare it to the Z, then you should compare it to the Mustang. You could use the V-6 model, but the 5.0 is probably the more apt comparison if the desire is to keep the Z as the comparison benchmark because I don't think (might be wrong) the V-6 Mustang is there yet. So now we are comparing the lightweight 2.0L flat-4 NA BRZ to the pretty-heavy 5.0L V-8 NA Mustang or the quasi-heavy 3.7L V-6 NA 370z. The only characteristics these guys have in common is they all handle well and are fairly close in pricing(?), which is not a good basis to setup a comparison on since, well...you end up with this comparison. :icon14:

Which brings me to my second reason. Why are we comparing it to the Z in the first place? Is it because they both handle well and can be bought for similar prices? How does that make any sense when you can end up with a comparison like the above? Why is not being compared more heavily to vehicles that actually existed in that market segment? Cars like the RX-8 and Silvia. Both are lightweight, just like the BRZ. Both are small engines with relatively modest amounts of power, just like the BRZ. Both existed in the "entry" level RWD sport coupe segment, just like the BRZ. Both have back seats, just like the BRZ. From just about every angle I can think of, these comparisons make a ton more sense and would be far more relevant than comparing the BRZ to a Z.

Again, since that was somewhat ranty although not at you bvl, strickly my opinion on the whole comparison bit.

My hopes for the car are it does well enough to bring this segmenet back and they figure out how to put a turbo on it. :excited:

crazyyankfan 04-17-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh (Post 1668816)
I pretty much agree with everything you said, but my comment is about comparing the BRZ to its peer group. Naturally, this is just my opinion. :icon17:

As far as I can tell, the BRZ does not really have a peer group that it directly compares against. Of the vehicles in production for the US market, there is the Gencoupe 2.0T and I think that is largely it for 4-cylinder, 2-door, RWD setup, although the Gencoupe is quite a bit heavier skewing the comparison some. This is why I think it gets compared to the Z so much, which (to me) makes no real sense for two reasons.

First, if you compare it to the Z, then you should compare it to the Mustang. You could use the V-6 model, but the 5.0 is probably the more apt comparison if the desire is to keep the Z as the comparison benchmark because I don't think (might be wrong) the V-6 Mustang is there yet. So now we are comparing the lightweight 2.0L flat-4 NA BRZ to the pretty-heavy 5.0L V-8 NA Mustang or the quasi-heavy 3.7L V-6 NA 370z. The only characteristics these guys have in common is they all handle well and are fairly close in pricing(?), which is not a good basis to setup a comparison on since, well...you end up with this comparison. :icon14:

Which brings me to my second reason. Why are we comparing it to the Z in the first place? Is it because they both handle well and can be bought for similar prices? How does that make any sense when you can end up with a comparison like the above? Why is not being compared more heavily to vehicles that actually existed in that market segment? Cars like the RX-8 and Silvia. Both are lightweight, just like the BRZ. Both are small engines with relatively modest amounts of power, just like the BRZ. Both existed in the "entry" level RWD sport coupe segment, just like the BRZ. Both have back seats, just like the BRZ. From just about every angle I can think of, these comparisons make a ton more sense and would be far more relevant than comparing the BRZ to a Z.

Again, since that was somewhat ranty although not at you bvl, strickly my opinion on the whole comparison bit.

My hopes for the car are it does well enough to bring this segmenet back and they figure out how to put a turbo on it. :excited:

Price-wise, you're looking at a car ~$5k less than a base Z or ~$10k less than one with sports pkg. The BRZ will soon become a new teenagers/college kids standard, while the Z will never be like that due to the price.

Iceagetlc 04-17-2012 02:19 PM

I'm 6'4", so this comparison means nothing to me. The Z was built for real sized people, not Chocolate Factory employees.

ZMan8 04-17-2012 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceagetlc (Post 1669326)
I'm 6'4", so this comparison means nothing to me. The Z was built for real sized people, not Chocolate Factory employees.

:icon18:

m4a1mustang 04-17-2012 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceagetlc (Post 1669326)
I'm 6'4", so this comparison means nothing to me. The Z was built for real sized people, not Chocolate Factory employees.

:bowrofl:

shadoquad 04-17-2012 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyyankfan (Post 1669166)
Price-wise, you're looking at a car ~$5k less than a base Z or ~$10k less than one with sports pkg. The BRZ will soon become a new teenagers/college kids standard, while the Z will never be like that due to the price.

Used Z's will.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceagetlc (Post 1669326)
I'm 6'4", so this comparison means nothing to me. The Z was built for real sized people, not Chocolate Factory employees.

:roflpuke2:

crazyyankfan 04-17-2012 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad (Post 1669463)
Used Z's will.

:roflpuke2:

not really tho. I worked in an university, and I simply don't see any Z here (except for mine of course lol)

daisuke149 04-18-2012 05:44 AM

Wow, honestly i see alot of butthurt z owners here.

I dont care what this comparison says.

A lightweight, shorter car in a track where there are a ton of sharp corners and less straights, should keep up with something heaver with more power.

On little talladega as they call it, Mikes 370z was easily hanging with the bigger beastly GTR's. He actually passed a few, Its a very short course, with sharp turns and the straights arent very long at all.

Also, why would you NOT want to compare a car against something that would normally be considered better? The point is to try and upsell the car. The Z was compared to the z4, the cayman...

Hyundai compares its cars to lexus etc.

Seriously guys.. stop getting butthurt... in the end, this comparison and article really won't mean anything. People will buy that car if they like it and they will buy the z if they like the z.

bvl 04-18-2012 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh (Post 1668816)
I pretty much agree with everything you said, but my comment is about comparing the BRZ to its peer group. Naturally, this is just my opinion. :icon17:

<snip>

First, if you compare it to the Z, then you should compare it to the Mustang. You could use the V-6 model, but the 5.0 is probably the more apt comparison if the desire is to keep the Z as the comparison benchmark because I don't think (might be wrong) the V-6 Mustang is there yet. So now we are comparing the lightweight 2.0L flat-4 NA BRZ to the pretty-heavy 5.0L V-8 NA Mustang or the quasi-heavy 3.7L V-6 NA 370z. The only characteristics these guys have in common is they all handle well and are fairly close in pricing(?), which is not a good basis to setup a comparison on since, well...you end up with this comparison. :icon14:

Which brings me to my second reason. Why are we comparing it to the Z in the first place? Is it because they both handle well and can be bought for similar prices? How does that make any sense when you can end up with a comparison like the above? Why is not being compared more heavily to vehicles that actually existed in that market segment? Cars like the RX-8 and Silvia. Both are lightweight, just like the BRZ. Both are small engines with relatively modest amounts of power, just like the BRZ. Both existed in the "entry" level RWD sport coupe segment, just like the BRZ. Both have back seats, just like the BRZ. From just about every angle I can think of, these comparisons make a ton more sense and would be far more relevant than comparing the BRZ to a Z.

:

I think you just hit the point without realizing it. :D

RX-8 is gone...200sx/Silvia has been gone for years (I don't acknowledge the 240 was ever sold...truck engine here while keeping the 2.0 DET engine away from us). The Mustang is a pony car in any engine configuration. It may be tuned so it can turn good lap times and hold a skid pad (despite the antiquated suspension), but that doesn't mean it handles well. Its not the tossable fun loving toy you may be looking for in a well balanced car. Point it strait and hit the fun pedal.

If those other cars were still sold today, they would be easy targets to compare. They are great examples of what would have been a marketing peer.

So if you (you being any reader of this thread) were going to put a comparo together of a new RWD sports car/coupe, what cars would you put in there?

Price range 25-35K.

I don't see much to choose from. I see the BRZ compared to FWD fun cars in future magazine comparisons as well. Say Mini-S, GTI etc...

- b

m4a1mustang 04-18-2012 06:29 AM

The Mustang is actually very tossable! Its balance is what ended up winning me over.

m4a1mustang 04-18-2012 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149 (Post 1670681)
Wow, honestly i see alot of butthurt z owners here.

I dont care what this comparison says.

A lightweight, shorter car in a track where there are a ton of sharp corners and less straights, should keep up with something heaver with more power.

On little talladega as they call it, Mikes 370z was easily hanging with the bigger beastly GTR's. He actually passed a few, Its a very short course, with sharp turns and the straights arent very long at all.

Also, why would you NOT want to compare a car against something that would normally be considered better? The point is to try and upsell the car. The Z was compared to the z4, the cayman...

Hyundai compares its cars to lexus etc.

Seriously guys.. stop getting butthurt... in the end, this comparison and article really won't mean anything. People will buy that car if they like it and they will buy the z if they like the z.

:iagree: x1000


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