BRZ vs 370Z vs MX-5 Review

crazyyankfan · 04-17-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

I pretty much agree with everything you said, but my comment is about comparing the BRZ to its peer group. Naturally, this is just my opinion.

As far as I can tell, the BRZ does not really have a peer group that it directly compares against. Of the vehicles in production for the US market, there is the Gencoupe 2.0T and I think that is largely it for 4-cylinder, 2-door, RWD setup, although the Gencoupe is quite a bit heavier skewing the comparison some. This is why I think it gets compared to the Z so much, which (to me) makes no real sense for two reasons.

First, if you compare it to the Z, then you should compare it to the Mustang. You could use the V-6 model, but the 5.0 is probably the more apt comparison if the desire is to keep the Z as the comparison benchmark because I don't think (might be wrong) the V-6 Mustang is there yet. So now we are comparing the lightweight 2.0L flat-4 NA BRZ to the pretty-heavy 5.0L V-8 NA Mustang or the quasi-heavy 3.7L V-6 NA 370z. The only characteristics these guys have in common is they all handle well and are fairly close in pricing(?), which is not a good basis to setup a comparison on since, well...you end up with this comparison.

Which brings me to my second reason. Why are we comparing it to the Z in the first place? Is it because they both handle well and can be bought for similar prices? How does that make any sense when you can end up with a comparison like the above? Why is not being compared more heavily to vehicles that actually existed in that market segment? Cars like the RX-8 and Silvia. Both are lightweight, just like the BRZ. Both are small engines with relatively modest amounts of power, just like the BRZ. Both existed in the "entry" level RWD sport coupe segment, just like the BRZ. Both have back seats, just like the BRZ. From just about every angle I can think of, these comparisons make a ton more sense and would be far more relevant than comparing the BRZ to a Z.

Again, since that was somewhat ranty although not at you bvl, strickly my opinion on the whole comparison bit.

My hopes for the car are it does well enough to bring this segmenet back and they figure out how to put a turbo on it.

Price-wise, you're looking at a car ~$5k less than a base Z or ~$10k less than one with sports pkg. The BRZ will soon become a new teenagers/college kids standard, while the Z will never be like that due to the price.

Iceagetlc · 04-17-2012, 03:19 PM

I'm 6'4", so this comparison means nothing to me. The Z was built for real sized people, not Chocolate Factory employees.

ZMan8 · 04-17-2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceagetlc

I'm 6'4", so this comparison means nothing to me. The Z was built for real sized people, not Chocolate Factory employees.

m4a1mustang · 04-17-2012, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceagetlc

I'm 6'4", so this comparison means nothing to me. The Z was built for real sized people, not Chocolate Factory employees.

shadoquad · 04-17-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyyankfan

Price-wise, you're looking at a car ~$5k less than a base Z or ~$10k less than one with sports pkg. The BRZ will soon become a new teenagers/college kids standard, while the Z will never be like that due to the price.

Used Z's will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceagetlc

I'm 6'4", so this comparison means nothing to me. The Z was built for real sized people, not Chocolate Factory employees.

crazyyankfan · 04-17-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

Used Z's will.

not really tho. I worked in an university, and I simply don't see any Z here (except for mine of course lol)

daisuke149 · 04-18-2012, 06:44 AM

Wow, honestly i see alot of butthurt z owners here.

I dont care what this comparison says.

A lightweight, shorter car in a track where there are a ton of sharp corners and less straights, should keep up with something heaver with more power.

On little talladega as they call it, Mikes 370z was easily hanging with the bigger beastly GTR's. He actually passed a few, Its a very short course, with sharp turns and the straights arent very long at all.

Also, why would you NOT want to compare a car against something that would normally be considered better? The point is to try and upsell the car. The Z was compared to the z4, the cayman...

Hyundai compares its cars to lexus etc.

Seriously guys.. stop getting butthurt... in the end, this comparison and article really won't mean anything. People will buy that car if they like it and they will buy the z if they like the z.

bvl · 04-18-2012, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

I pretty much agree with everything you said, but my comment is about comparing the BRZ to its peer group. Naturally, this is just my opinion.

First, if you compare it to the Z, then you should compare it to the Mustang. You could use the V-6 model, but the 5.0 is probably the more apt comparison if the desire is to keep the Z as the comparison benchmark because I don't think (might be wrong) the V-6 Mustang is there yet. So now we are comparing the lightweight 2.0L flat-4 NA BRZ to the pretty-heavy 5.0L V-8 NA Mustang or the quasi-heavy 3.7L V-6 NA 370z. The only characteristics these guys have in common is they all handle well and are fairly close in pricing(?), which is not a good basis to setup a comparison on since, well...you end up with this comparison.

Which brings me to my second reason. Why are we comparing it to the Z in the first place? Is it because they both handle well and can be bought for similar prices? How does that make any sense when you can end up with a comparison like the above? Why is not being compared more heavily to vehicles that actually existed in that market segment? Cars like the RX-8 and Silvia. Both are lightweight, just like the BRZ. Both are small engines with relatively modest amounts of power, just like the BRZ. Both existed in the "entry" level RWD sport coupe segment, just like the BRZ. Both have back seats, just like the BRZ. From just about every angle I can think of, these comparisons make a ton more sense and would be far more relevant than comparing the BRZ to a Z.

:

I think you just hit the point without realizing it.

RX-8 is gone...200sx/Silvia has been gone for years (I don't acknowledge the 240 was ever sold...truck engine here while keeping the 2.0 DET engine away from us). The Mustang is a pony car in any engine configuration. It may be tuned so it can turn good lap times and hold a skid pad (despite the antiquated suspension), but that doesn't mean it handles well. Its not the tossable fun loving toy you may be looking for in a well balanced car. Point it strait and hit the fun pedal.

If those other cars were still sold today, they would be easy targets to compare. They are great examples of what would have been a marketing peer.

So if you (you being any reader of this thread) were going to put a comparo together of a new RWD sports car/coupe, what cars would you put in there?

Price range 25-35K.

I don't see much to choose from. I see the BRZ compared to FWD fun cars in future magazine comparisons as well. Say Mini-S, GTI etc...

- b

m4a1mustang · 04-18-2012, 07:29 AM

The Mustang is actually very tossable! Its balance is what ended up winning me over.

m4a1mustang · 04-18-2012, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

Wow, honestly i see alot of butthurt z owners here.

I dont care what this comparison says.

A lightweight, shorter car in a track where there are a ton of sharp corners and less straights, should keep up with something heaver with more power.

On little talladega as they call it, Mikes 370z was easily hanging with the bigger beastly GTR's. He actually passed a few, Its a very short course, with sharp turns and the straights arent very long at all.

Also, why would you NOT want to compare a car against something that would normally be considered better? The point is to try and upsell the car. The Z was compared to the z4, the cayman...

Hyundai compares its cars to lexus etc.

Seriously guys.. stop getting butthurt... in the end, this comparison and article really won't mean anything. People will buy that car if they like it and they will buy the z if they like the z.

x1000

Cmike2780 · 04-18-2012, 07:42 AM

A mini cooper could keep up with a GTR given the advantageous road course. Let's not forget that these articles are written by reviewers who tend to be a bit biased and or just opinionated. You could probably find an article praising how the Z demolishes the brz in every way if you look hard enough

m4a1mustang · 04-18-2012, 09:17 AM

If everyone just bought what they wanted and didn't give a crap about what other people thought (and didn't feel the need to justify their purchase every second of the day) they would be happy!

shadoquad · 04-18-2012, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

Wow, honestly i see alot of butthurt z owners here.

I dont care what this comparison says.

A lightweight, shorter car in a track where there are a ton of sharp corners and less straights, should keep up with something heaver with more power.

On little talladega as they call it, Mikes 370z was easily hanging with the bigger beastly GTR's. He actually passed a few, Its a very short course, with sharp turns and the straights arent very long at all.

Also, why would you NOT want to compare a car against something that would normally be considered better? The point is to try and upsell the car. The Z was compared to the z4, the cayman...

Hyundai compares its cars to lexus etc.

Seriously guys.. stop getting butthurt... in the end, this comparison and article really won't mean anything. People will buy that car if they like it and they will buy the z if they like the z.

I'm not butthurt. I just said I'd believe it when I see it, and I kinda doubt it's as good as they're hyping. But you make a good point about comparing things up-scale. Too bad I can't agree with you out of principle, only because it's you.

Red__Zed · 04-18-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

The Mustang is actually very tossable! Its balance is what ended up winning me over.

Fanboy

Red__Zed · 04-18-2012, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

A mini cooper could keep up with a GTR given the advantageous road course. Let's not forget that these articles are written by reviewers who tend to be a bit biased and or just opinionated. You could probably find an article praising how the Z demolishes the brz in every way if you look hard enough

No surprise to anyone that the brz takes it on a tight course. We all expect it to run up with the Evo and s2k in autoX rather than with the z....why would we expect it to be different in a rag test?

04-18-2012, 07:29 AM	#39 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	The Mustang is actually very tossable! Its balance is what ended up winning me over. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook! Last edited by m4a1mustang; 04-18-2012 at 07:31 AM.

04-18-2012, 07:42 AM	#41 (permalink)
Cmike2780 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 5,059 Drives: slowwww Rep Power: 29	A mini cooper could keep up with a GTR given the advantageous road course. Let's not forget that these articles are written by reviewers who tend to be a bit biased and or just opinionated. You could probably find an article praising how the Z demolishes the brz in every way if you look hard enough __________________ [09][MB][6-Spd MT][Touring][Stillen Gen III][K&N][Borla CBE][Evo-R] [ArchitTEK Photography]

04-18-2012, 09:17 AM	#42 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	If everyone just bought what they wanted and didn't give a crap about what other people thought (and didn't feel the need to justify their purchase every second of the day) they would be happy! __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
My 370z on DA track day...Review,Pic and Vid	nalmusabi	Track / Autocross / Drifting / Dragstrip	14	10-05-2011 05:28 AM
Another 370z Review, this time PG, 6MT	k20z3	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	12	09-11-2009 02:46 AM
best 370z review to date...	jmlenz	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	16	07-01-2009 10:56 AM
370z vs gtr review	mattkim85	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	1	04-04-2009 06:49 PM
Pistonheads review of 370Z	semtex	Nissan 370Z Photos / Spyshots / Video / Media Gallery	2	03-26-2009 06:08 PM

04-17-2012, 03:19 PM	#32 (permalink)
Iceagetlc Base Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: New Oxford, PA Posts: 139 Drives: '11 STI Limited S2 Rep Power: 14	I'm 6'4", so this comparison means nothing to me. The Z was built for real sized people, not Chocolate Factory employees.

04-18-2012, 06:44 AM	#37 (permalink)
daisuke149 My *** is famous! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Alpharetta, GA Posts: 4,849 Drives: 2013 Boss 302 PW Rep Power: 31	Wow, honestly i see alot of butthurt z owners here. I dont care what this comparison says. A lightweight, shorter car in a track where there are a ton of sharp corners and less straights, should keep up with something heaver with more power. On little talladega as they call it, Mikes 370z was easily hanging with the bigger beastly GTR's. He actually passed a few, Its a very short course, with sharp turns and the straights arent very long at all. Also, why would you NOT want to compare a car against something that would normally be considered better? The point is to try and upsell the car. The Z was compared to the z4, the cayman... Hyundai compares its cars to lexus etc. Seriously guys.. stop getting butthurt... in the end, this comparison and article really won't mean anything. People will buy that car if they like it and they will buy the z if they like the z.