Friend of mine suggested a more apt comparison would be the now discontinued RX-8. Similar weight, weight distribution, back seat, etc. Made a lot of sense to me.

Personally, I really don't understand what this BRZ/FR-S hype is all about. Probably cuz the sudden comeback of Toyota 86? I'm not saying it's a bad car. I just don't think that all the sudden Toyota make a sports car better than any others on the market, not to mention they haven't made any decent sports car for quite a while.

So ppl are thinking that Toyota suddenly came out with this new sports car and it's automatically better than Z? which Nissan certainly has been more legendary in making sports cars than Toyota

Easy for me...

I buy what I want and what I like and could care less what others think, unless of course they want to purchase the car for me. :tiphat:

I feel like they are shortchanging the Z in the handling department.

Apparently our cars lack grip and composure. I dunno bout the base Z's, but the sport package tire/suspension setup grips hard. Number-wise, I haven't read an article that puts the BRZ as being grippier than the Z. Still haven't driven one though, so I'll have to save my final opinion till this summer.

Its not always about ultimate grip but feel and how the car responds at the edge.

The Z's VCS is extremely abrupt with no settings. Any arguments? Didn't think so :)

But if a car is tossable, and easy to drive at the limits to push the slip angles in an easily controlled way, it can be a lot more fun to some. Ref: Z06 vs base Vette with MR suspension driven at 80-90%.

As to the hype...<puts on movie guy voice>

In a world full of boring sedans, sports cutes, and trucks ^D^D^D^D^D SUVs, two companies defy the business odds by releasing a 25K RWD sports coupe that has limited practicality.

When was the last time this happened? 350Z and RX-8 intros come to mind.

Its been a while.

- b

^^ Combative much? :icon14:

Pretty much this. Raw grip isn't everything.

Is it me or is the writer of this article a huge BRZ :nutswinger:

hes making it seems like the Z and mx-5 are minivans being compared to a sports car. the article is not written with an objective mind imo and it seems the hype has gotten the best of this writer.

I'm not saying Z>all or anything of that nature, but to say the BRZ is best since NSX to come out of japan....R34 Skyline, TT Supra, GTR, 3 generations of Z's, RX-7 just to name a few.

A lot of reviews that have this type of comparo plays to the Law of Recency- basically, the newest thing is foremost in one's mind. It shows here, especially when you read between the lines. A couple of things the author said stood out for me, things like (paraphrased): "have to rev it over 5500 rpm," "would get left behind by a Peugeot 205," "on the right road it could keep the 370z behind it," and so on. What this tells me is the Subaru/Scion cars generate an experience incredibly specific to the type of driving being done, and it's on the consumer to decide if they want that level of specificity.

In the mountain biking world, we have an acronym that's thrown around a lot- "JRA": Just Riding Along. JRA accounts for anywhere between 50 and 95% of a given trail ride, it's just a fact of life. The fun bits unfortunately aren't usually the main part of any ride. For most of us who love driving, the same thing is true. Most of our time driving is on less-than-thrilling roads where the curves aren't endless and tight, where timely acceleration in traffic and from a stoplight matter, where grunt and grip are significantly more important than handling "on the limit." In other words, what I took from the article was that if you want a car for that 5% of your driving time (and don't live at a high elevation) the BRZ/FR-S is right for you. If you'd rather have a car less specialized and more capable for the other 95% of the time, it has to be the Z.

S.

Exactly, this writer is talking about BRZ/FR-S like it's the best Japanese sports car ever made in recent year. Duh.........

I am not saying I agree 100% with the writers opinion. I am saying I think I understand where they are coming from.

Z32/Supra/3000GT were the pig triplets. Technology fun for the time absolutely, but they were all heavy cars with turbos. The FD was not a pig (and one of the all time classic looking cars IMHO) but its design had more then a few problems with maintenance.

The NSX was a few things. At the time it was an affordable exotic (something we all wish the R35 stayed true to but the Yen/Dollar is preventing that).

But mostly, it was a high RPM well balanced package that actually was underpowered *compared to the competition*. The 3.0 and later 3.2 Honda engine was never a stump puller.

Is it a great comparison? Arguably not of course. I think its not a bad one however in that there hasn't been a new RWD platform outside of the Genesis in quite some time, has there?

In the segment of sports coupes (which was alive and flourishing in the 80/90's but to me has died off in the last 10 years), the BRZ is very interesting. Compare it to some of its peers (including V6 cars) and then think about 1990 and driving an NSX compared to say a Vette or a 911.

It gives us all something to talk about, if nothing else. :driving:

- b

I know this is off-topic, but the R35 is as close to affordable exotic as the NSX was, if we're talking about initial MSRP. The NSX was always expensive. 60-90k in 1990's money. True, that's cheaper than its competition, but the R35 has remained around the 80-100k price point these days. It's about the same.

They have a business case in mind. As with most manufacturers, they are making these sports cars to draw people into the showroom and look at the boring minivans and midsize grocery getters that the people are actually shopping for. Even if they take a loss, the volume of Camry and Legacy sales will more than make up for it.


Back to the article, I am excited for the BRZ/FRS to come out, but I don't like the hyperbole in the article about how it's just so much better than the Miata and Z. Edging them out narrowly I could believe, but with this much hype thrown in, I'll believe it when I see it. I'm thinking Subaru threw Autocar some serious ad dollars for this.

I am at loss on that one how can they say that this car will keep pace with 200 HP and a 170 lbs of torque at the crank? Even at 2500lbs which I doubt. The 18" on that car will slow it down. I thought this was a direct injected turbo car like the wrx or sti. This a n/a 2.0... It may be able to carve some corners and it is a great looking car, own a 370z? Maybe one stuck in first gear. Now put the sti motor in that car and I am selling my Z.

:iagree:

I pretty much agree with everything you said, but my comment is about comparing the BRZ to its peer group. Naturally, this is just my opinion. :icon17:

As far as I can tell, the BRZ does not really have a peer group that it directly compares against. Of the vehicles in production for the US market, there is the Gencoupe 2.0T and I think that is largely it for 4-cylinder, 2-door, RWD setup, although the Gencoupe is quite a bit heavier skewing the comparison some. This is why I think it gets compared to the Z so much, which (to me) makes no real sense for two reasons.

First, if you compare it to the Z, then you should compare it to the Mustang. You could use the V-6 model, but the 5.0 is probably the more apt comparison if the desire is to keep the Z as the comparison benchmark because I don't think (might be wrong) the V-6 Mustang is there yet. So now we are comparing the lightweight 2.0L flat-4 NA BRZ to the pretty-heavy 5.0L V-8 NA Mustang or the quasi-heavy 3.7L V-6 NA 370z. The only characteristics these guys have in common is they all handle well and are fairly close in pricing(?), which is not a good basis to setup a comparison on since, well...you end up with this comparison. :icon14:

Which brings me to my second reason. Why are we comparing it to the Z in the first place? Is it because they both handle well and can be bought for similar prices? How does that make any sense when you can end up with a comparison like the above? Why is not being compared more heavily to vehicles that actually existed in that market segment? Cars like the RX-8 and Silvia. Both are lightweight, just like the BRZ. Both are small engines with relatively modest amounts of power, just like the BRZ. Both existed in the "entry" level RWD sport coupe segment, just like the BRZ. Both have back seats, just like the BRZ. From just about every angle I can think of, these comparisons make a ton more sense and would be far more relevant than comparing the BRZ to a Z.

Again, since that was somewhat ranty although not at you bvl, strickly my opinion on the whole comparison bit.

My hopes for the car are it does well enough to bring this segmenet back and they figure out how to put a turbo on it. :excited: