ford dealership experience + question to mustang owners
 

Had a pretty interesting experience today while car shopping. I went to Markville Ford to check out mustangs. Hardly any sales people working there. I walk around and check out some mustangs in the backyard. Then I sat in a gt500 convertible inside the showroom for a few minutes checking out the interior. I try to get a feel for the clutch and manual gearbox. A sales man tells me I shouldn't do that because the transmission is dry because the car doesn't get driven or moved from its place. He asks if he can help me with something. I tell him I wanna know about mustangs. Right off the bat, he asks me my age!?!?!?!?! Him: How old are you? Me: 28. Him: Because you look young. !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then he asks me what I would like to know and I tell him I'm interested in 5.0 gt models, manual, coupe with brembo package. He checks his inventory and finds only a 2012 convertible. He has some company demo models from 2011 but without brembo pack. I ask if I can possibly test drive it. He says they don't do test drives on them in the winter because their summer tires get very hard in the cold and due to the torque the back end slides and spins out. Ok fair enough. Even though it was bone dry out there, but it was a bit cold at -3 celsius. So I ask if can test drive the base model without brembo pack since they come with all season tires. He said the same thing happens with all seasons too so no test drives on these either. I ask if he'll be getting more cars soon, and he tells me in a couple of weeks they will get another delivery which might have something to my preferences. I tell him to take down my contact info and let me know. His tone suddenly becomes less hostile and now he's actually more willing to talk and chat as opposed to a few minutes ago when he seemed to be eager to show me the exit. He gets my contact info and give me his business card which I of course tossed into the trash as soon as i went home.

I was never a big fan of fords or mustangs but I tried to keep an open mind. But that experience just left a sour taste in my mouth. Needless to say, even if by some miracle I do get a mustang, markville ford won't be seeing a single penny of my money. I was actually shocked at the way he treated me. I would have expected to be treated like crap at porsche or bmw, being young in casual dress, and looking out of place among the well heeled crowds that go to such dealers. Yet surprisingly enough, the porsche sales rep was very polite and actually offered me to test drive an 2006 c4s with a laundry list of options they had in stock, and sent me an email a few days later asking me again to test drive it. I would have, but their asking price is too steep for me so I never followed up on it. And the bmw experience was even better. I went there to check out M3 right after the ford visit, and talked to a very nice sales lady that offered me a coffee, and chatted with me. She was very open to the idea of me taking a test drive, agreeing i have to like the car before i decide to buy it, only they didn't have any cars available. They had a new one inside the showroom on a trickle charger that's never moved, and they had a used one but it was just sold so i couldn't test drive it. But she will call me in a few days when they get more inventory.

So seriously, here I am, young, dressed in casual clothes, and I get VIP treatment at luxury car dealers like porsche and bmw, while i get treated like crap at FORD of all places!!!!!!!!!!!!! One of the lowest tier car makers out there, a company that nearly went bankrupt a couple of years ago. I remember the same crappy treatment i.e. no test drive allowed BS I experienced a couple of years ago at a Mitsu dealer when i was cross shopping an EVO X.


Anyway, that brings me to my question to mustang owners. That gt500 I sat in, when i tried getting a feel for the shifter, must have been the roughest, clunkiest, harshest shifter i ever touched! I actually think it aggravated an elbow injury i had or something. It took quite a tremendous effort to get the shifter into any of the 6 gears. Heck, even just moving the shifter sideways in neutral was heavy. I really don't get the salesman's logic that the gearbox is dry as the oil isn't sloshing around since the car isn't driven. I parked my 370 for a couple of weeks at a time when on vacation and i never had such a problem. I remember messing around with the shifter in other 370's and even other cars in dealership showrooms that were never driven either. Heck, even the new m3 at that bmw dealer i mentioned, the one on the trickle charger that hasn't moved from its location for weeks if not month, still had a buttery smooth shifter you can move into gear with a single finger if you wanted. Was there something seriously messed up with that gt500 i saw today or are all mustang manual gearboxes so damn rough and clunky?

its cause everyone and their mom has them.. my friend who is 25 got turned down for a test drive on the V6!!

Pharm, sounds like you found a dbag of a salesman. Unfortunately, they exist for every make. Glad you chucked his card. With that line of bs, he wouldn't get my business, either. Believe me, I've been there as well.

You are comparing different level of car dealerships.
BMW will do a lot of things for you before you even test drive or talk about the car which generates a positive experience, while a Ford dealership just wants to make a sale. Same goes for Mitsu, Nissan, etc.

The Tremec is pretty stiff. If you are just shifting it back and forth while the car is sitting there you won't get a feel for how it is when it's warmed up. They are very beefy, though. Keep in mind the Z you're used to is rated to 33x lb-ft. The TR-6060 is rated to 600lb-ft or so, so it's going to feel a little different.

The Getrag MT-82 in the 5.0s is smoother than the TR-6060, IMO, but it's still got some notch as any direct-input style transmission would.

I feel like you should be able to engage the gear with finger pressure, even in the GT500, though. The Z definitely does have a very weak (read: light) action in the shift lever.

I've only ever had a positive car buying experience at Subaru, and that was mostly due to the Costco Auto Program. It dangles over dealers like a noose; if they get a complaint about their service Costco rips their hearts out.

Agreed that BMW takes care of their clients, as they should be doing given how much they ask for their car. But your experience is not out of the ordinary; in fact, sadly, I consider it to be the norm. It's rare to find a dealer that is willing to help you out very easily.

Some bimmer dealerships act all snooty and won't even approach you.

I've actually had positive experiences at all of the dealerships I've been to for the most part. Porsche, Ford, BMW, etc. I am always floored at these stories of dealerships treating their customers like crap, especially in an economy like this.

Pharm, since the 370 is the only RWD car you've driven before it's also the only direct-input style gearbox you've driven. Most of them share some common traits, but usually the higher the torque rating the more effort required to operate. Just something to keep in mind.

I dont think it's fair to generalize all dealerships (i.e. ford, nissan, etc) based on one encounter. It's easy to get a douche salesman, or even an entire douche dealership (some dealerships are still stuck in the 70s). I remember going to a ford dealership where we test drove an 04 cobra when it was still new. I've also been to dealerships where you practically have to show your pay stubs to get them to unlock a car. Just depends on where you go.

So this was you

Yeah, what of it?

Yeah we're all loaded in NOVA.

:icon17:

The part about nova is def true, not sure about the rest, I'll take your word for it.

I've had good and bad dealership experiences at a variety of makes. I have found, in my experience that the american car dealerships tend to be more pushy, dodge, ford, and jeep to be specific. I've never been treated like I couldn't afford the car anywhere and I dress super casual and with my normally shaved or almost shaved head and crazy biker beard, you'd think they wouldn't give me the time of day. :confused:

Porsche dealerships have always treated me very well for what it's worth.

:iagree: I walked into a P-car dealership and was behind the wheel of a Cayman S after only maybe 10 minutes of being there. I was very clear that I was in the middle of testing a bunch of different cars and they didn't seem to mind one bit.

It's been a few years but last time I went to one, I told the guy we were just looking and he was trying to almost force to test drive a cayman S after we sat in one and look at in in the showroom thoroughly. I didn't test drive it cause I didn't want to put miles on a nice car I have no intention of buying.

We were in a 350z at the time and to my surprise, teh salesman was full of praise fo the Z. I may never spend my $$ on a P car but I will def tip my hat to their dealership experience for sure.

I was 23 at the time of my drive and showed up in my commuter '06 Civic sedan. Parked right out front, too. :tup:

lol maybe I got good service at the Subaru dealership because when I pulled up driving Rin, they thought it was a porsche :rofl2:

:bowrofl:

it is a direct-input trans that you are running cold...I imagine it would probably feel a bit clunky. Like many other transmissions, it also trades a bit of ease for short throws-- opposite the 370, which gave a light feel in exchange for longer, vague shifts. It is largely a matter of taste, but certainly worth checking out with the trans up to operating temp (and given the treatment you got at the dealer, there very well may be something wrong with the car.




As far as the treatment you dealt with, there are several contributing factors:
1: new year, not desperate for a sale
2: probably not the best sales guy on the lot today since it is the beginning of a new year
3: every mfr has some crappy dealers, sounds like you picked a bad one
4: your attitude


First two are almost for sure, plus some mix of 3 and 4

well, when i was shopping for the 370z a couple of years ago, i did test drive a 335i and it had a buttery smooth shifter too. regardless, i know direct input shifters will be rougher and clunkier than average. but that shifter was just so damn hard to move. i'm not a weakling. i go to the gym and pump iron, and still i had to use quite a bit of effort to move the shifter into gear, or even just wiggle it sideways. it felt about the same as a steering wheel feels when the engine is off and power steering isn't active. it was something that would quickly exhaust the muscles if done repeatedly during a normal drive. actually i think something must have been wrong with that specific car. i'll check other dealerships definitely just to verify my doubts.

Pharm,
Just out of curiosity, what cars are on your short list to repalce your totaled Z?

?????????? what's with my attitude? i lurked around for a few minutes waiting for a salesman to show up. when no one did, i decided to check out the interior of that gt500. and a few seconds later that guy came out telling me not to do that. and as soon as i told him i'm interested in mustangs, he asks for my age. no hello, no good afternoon, no hi i'm .... how can i help you, no happy new year, nothing. just a dirty look and how old are you. :shakes head:

I don't remember the transmission on the GT500 being so difficult to operate. You'd have to get your hands on one that's warmed up and give it a shot to see. Don't expect it to be easy by any means, but it shouldn't be hard at all, especially if you are young and healthy! :tup:

not really sure. maybe go the awd route for sti or evo, but doubtful given the cheap interior, boy racer looks, and questionable reliability. I might go for a cayman s but the pricing on these things is insane, even used. Hard to justify the cost vs performance gain. Right now the top of my list is either used 911 or e92 m3 with possibilities including 335i (which i would mod significantly for the track), cayman s (if i can find one that doesn't cost an arm and a leg), or if all else fails just get nother 370z

maintenance on a used 911 or m3, esp if you start tracking it, will be something you need to factor in to the cost of ownership.

I hear ya on the cayman S. I built a black ed. cayman S optioned the way I'd want (still not close to fully loaded) and it was $92K, i built a cayman R same way and it was $90K. Great cars, but not $90K great.

I wasn't there, but it is usually a contributing factor in crappy dealership experiences....again, last two in some proportions unknown to me....

The Cayman S is an amazing car. Perfectly done. But it is insanely expensive when you can get relative performance for much cheaper. But if you've got the money to blow on one they are super nice. I just couldn't bring myself to do it, which is why I bought the 370.

agreed. i never driven a cayman but i have no doubt it's an amazing car. but i don't have money to blow. and even if i did, at that price point, there are many better alternatives. used 911, used gtr, m3, used corvette z06, etc. these are cars with better performance and practicality too. and for some reason, even used cayman s are still commanding too much of a price premium.

IF i were to ever buy a P car, I'd either be in a Cayman R or a 911 gt3 rs. The cayman is technically built on the better platform and is cheaper but is purposely down, very down, on hp. nevertheless, I still might take one over the 911.

BUT, it's all academic since if I am spending that kind of dough, I'll be in a GTR (again) anyway. :tup:

I love P cars... always have. I think if I buy one (and it's really when, not if), it's going to be the 911. It just isn't a P-car if it's not a 911. :p The 2012 redesign has stolen my heart. :yum:

If I bought one now, though, I wouldn't be able to spend nearly as much money on the other important things in life... like computers, guns, cigars, etc. :bowrofl:

You have time for other things in life besides trolling on here...?

I do agree the new 991 911 is very very much improved over the 997 in the places where it counts and looks very good. I think all car guys have at least some love for the P cars, (911s specifically) regardless of whether they'd own one or not.

PS--glad to know your priorities are in the right place. :tup:

really? i actually think that porsche achieved the impossible and made the 911 even uglier with the new 991 generation. can't doubt the performance upgrade though.

imo, i think it looks more "purposeful" if that makes any sense.

I love it. I think it looks better in every way. Just seems more curvy to me. And it seems like they've really stepped up the performance too since they posted the 2S Nurburgring times.

I agree with FL... it's tough to pin a word to it, but I think "purposeful" works.

As much as I love cars I need to make sure I don't spend all my money on them because I have very, very expensive taste. :icon17:

lol. Yeah, it's hard to have self control sometimes.

(waiting for m4 to post pics of his new bugatti veyron at some point on here).

:bowrofl:

You know, I'm actually surprisingly content with the Mustang right now. It's been a lot of fun and I have some fun things planned for it in the next couple of months. I definitely think I will be able to hold on to it for at least another year, maybe two.

The only thing I'm trying to keep in check is my ongoing idea to drop $15k or so on an AP1 to play around with. I've successfully defeated that desire a handful of times already over the past year... I think I'll end up trying one out sooner or later, though. As an addition to the current car, of course.