Project cars and the old 8-series bmw

Armonster · 11-20-2011, 09:45 PM

So I've been thinking of good "project" cars that can keep me busy (and happy) for a long time. It's actually a tough decision. Here's what I'm looking for: (1) high quality design when it was new, (2) beautiful, (3) timeless (not dated looked), (4) classy (no fox-body mustangs), (5) good performance with moderate upgrades, (6) not overly expensive/collectible, (7) some amount of support available (i.e. possible to get parts, find people to work on it, etc).

My current list, including some thoughts (and feel free to add yours):

-300zx (doesn't do it for me aesthetically, but otherwise fits the bill)
-Supra
-Rx-7
-Ferrari 355 (too expensive for what it is)
-Ferrari 308 GTS (starting to look dated to me)
-BMW 850Ci or 850Csi

I've always loved the 8 series. It's obviously not as performance oriented as most of the other cars on the list, but that's not a problem for me. My real concern is availability and support. Used models don't seem too outrageously priced, although condition is a concern. I wonder if there are quality forums for the car, though. And whether any mechanics know how to work on the v12. What about aftermarket parts? Does the car have any fatal flaws that can't be dealt with?

I'm sure some of you car guys know the answers to some of these questions already, so share your knowledge!

Here's a link to a nice example of an 8-series: 1991 BMW 850 V12 6 Speed Home Page

waaaasabi · 11-21-2011, 01:51 PM

A guy in my old unit had a 850Ci - didn't seem it was that troublesome for him as far as I can remember, but I could be wrong.

Which generation Supra and RX-7 are you interested in (guessing MK-IV and FD)? It'll be difficult to find either one, fairly unmolested for a decent price.

I would recommend looking at a Miata/MX-5 for a project car.

m4a1mustang · 11-21-2011, 02:16 PM

Porsche 944?

kaboomwoom · 11-22-2011, 12:12 PM

what about a datsun 240z?

takjak2 · 11-22-2011, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Porsche 944?

A project just to keep it running!

m4a1mustang · 11-22-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takjak2

A project just to keep it running!

He said he wanted it to keep him busy!!!

Jeffblue · 11-22-2011, 01:01 PM

the 8 series bmw.... parts are asrtonomically expensive... did anyone see that top gear where clarkson bought the 8 series bmw and spent like 3x what he paid for it within a month.

300zx: be ready to drop 10k on the car on top of what you paid for it. honestly if you really want a 300zx try and find a really good chassis and assume the motor is shot. don't expect to get much life out of the stock motor in a 100k+ mile factory twin turbo, especially since you'll want to mod it that will only decrease its life.

supra... you'll pay a huge premium to get a supra... best bet would prolly be get an NA and buy a 2jz and do a swap.... a good alternative is getting a lexus sc300 and doing a 2jz swap. a factory TT supra will probably cost you more than those ferrari's you were thinking of.

if you are willing to spend some cash and know you are going to put the car under the knife, do a proper 240sx build.... get a clean chassis, put in an sr20 or an rb25/26, s14 kouki front end. Would be a fun car. a lot of them end up looking like crap because people dont want to put the money into them they need. but dont bother getting one if you are just going to keep the KA motor because it's slow as sh1T.

vividracing · 11-22-2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

the 8 series bmw.... parts are asrtonomically expensive... did anyone see that top gear where clarkson bought the 8 series bmw and spent like 3x what he paid for it within a month.

300zx: be ready to drop 10k on the car on top of what you paid for it. honestly if you really want a 300zx try and find a really good chassis and assume the motor is shot. don't expect to get much life out of the stock motor in a 100k+ mile factory twin turbo, especially since you'll want to mod it that will only decrease its life.

supra... you'll pay a huge premium to get a supra... best bet would prolly be get an NA and buy a 2jz and do a swap.... a good alternative is getting a lexus sc300 and doing a 2jz swap. a factory TT supra will probably cost you more than those ferrari's you were thinking of.

if you are willing to spend some cash and know you are going to put the car under the knife, do a proper 240sx build.... get a clean chassis, put in an sr20 or an rb25/26, s14 kouki front end. Would be a fun car. a lot of them end up looking like crap because people dont want to put the money into them they need. but dont bother getting one if you are just going to keep the KA motor because it's slow as sh1T.

I'd agree on all points except the 240SX. 240s usually look beat because they are beat. It's the most popular drift platform, and that's what the majority of them are. Also, for the price of an SR and for much less than an RB, you can take the stock KA and have it completely rebuilt w/ OEM water and oil pump, OEM gaskets, forged rods and pistons, and a decent turbo kit. 300whp is easily achieved, and you'll have a zero-mile 300whp turbo car. I prefer the KA-T route because parts for a KA are more common than for an SR and the SR is the fanboy route. Plus, 0-mile engine built by a good shop sounds a LOT better than some 140k mile engine that's been beat to crap by 2 or 3 dudes in Japan, then shipped to the US and beaten on by who knows how many people.

Based on your original post, the only 2 I'd consider would be the RX-7 or Supra. If you're not talking about Mk IV Supra and FD RX-7, then it comes to just the RX-7. FC RX-7s look awesome, but I'm not a big fan of Mk III Supras.

Armonster · 11-22-2011, 01:39 PM

Thanks for the responses. To clarify I was talking about a Mk IV supra and a FD rx-7; the older models look too dated to me. Same with the 944. I think you guys are right that there is a big premium on some of these cars because of their popularity.

I looked into 8-series a bit more and they don't seem to have the same sort of premium. Most of them sell for under $15k, even with a bunch of work put into them. The downside is the cost of parts, but I wonder if it would be worth buying a really well-done 8 and then upgrading/fixing things one at a time. I don't mind having one or two minor projects/issues on my hands at any given time, but I don't have the knowledge or time to be doing full engine swaps or builds. Then again, if something breaks on the 8 it won't necessarily be "minor." Jeffblue do you have a link to that episode you were talking about?

The 240z is an interesting option. I don't know too much about them, so maybe I'll check that out. Never been a big fan of the 240zx but it's the right idea.

So many options out there!

Red__Zed · 11-22-2011, 01:42 PM

the old 8's go cheap because they are expensive to keep running. It's just a long string of little petty things that aren't really a big deal by themselves, but they often add up to quite a headache.

On the other hand, some of them seem to hold up just fine...

Rooster89 · 11-22-2011, 01:53 PM

To throw my .02 in, i would go with the rx-7. its a project car and they are so versatile and fun to work on, not only that but as a project car you wouldn't have to worry about the rx-7's biggest detriment, the fuel efficiency of a m1 Abrams.

Plus i would love to pics of it if you build a red one with a body kit

Jeffblue · 11-22-2011, 02:13 PM

season 17 episode 3. Thats when they actually purchase the cars. then in later episodes they reference how much money he spent to keep the car running.

Anthony, yea i definitely see what you mean. I mean if you are going to do a proper motor build i guess the KA is good but a lot of people's idea of a KA-T is just throwing a turbo on a KA motor, not building the motor or lowering the compression or anything. when i said get an sr-20 i mean get one and build it.

a nice 240 or 280z would be cool too. get a chevy small block v8 and put it in. It's been done a million times but its still cool.

kaboomwoom · 11-22-2011, 02:56 PM

_ace_ · 11-23-2011, 12:18 AM

I always thought the 8 series, and also some of the old Jaguar V12s, were cool cars. I would want a pretty hefty nest egg for issues before I would pick one up, and if you want to drive this car hard I would simply look elsewhere--you can get more fun for your overall money. Everything you break on a car like that will be hard to buy and costly.

I always thought the Toyota 2000GT was pretty neat.

Personally I'm starting to think putting together a 427 Cobra or Daytona coupe might make a fun project. Old american power can be cheap, they certainly don't lack power, and they look like a lot of fun to beat on. The chassis design and aero aren't anything to write home about, but I like them.

11-20-2011, 09:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
Armonster Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 270 Drives: 2010 370z t/sp/6mt Rep Power: 14	Project cars and the old 8-series bmw So I've been thinking of good "project" cars that can keep me busy (and happy) for a long time. It's actually a tough decision. Here's what I'm looking for: (1) high quality design when it was new, (2) beautiful, (3) timeless (not dated looked), (4) classy (no fox-body mustangs), (5) good performance with moderate upgrades, (6) not overly expensive/collectible, (7) some amount of support available (i.e. possible to get parts, find people to work on it, etc). My current list, including some thoughts (and feel free to add yours): -300zx (doesn't do it for me aesthetically, but otherwise fits the bill) -Supra -Rx-7 -Ferrari 355 (too expensive for what it is) -Ferrari 308 GTS (starting to look dated to me) -BMW 850Ci or 850Csi I've always loved the 8 series. It's obviously not as performance oriented as most of the other cars on the list, but that's not a problem for me. My real concern is availability and support. Used models don't seem too outrageously priced, although condition is a concern. I wonder if there are quality forums for the car, though. And whether any mechanics know how to work on the v12. What about aftermarket parts? Does the car have any fatal flaws that can't be dealt with? I'm sure some of you car guys know the answers to some of these questions already, so share your knowledge! Here's a link to a nice example of an 8-series: 1991 BMW 850 V12 6 Speed Home Page

11-21-2011, 01:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
waaaasabi Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York City Posts: 491 Drives: '10 Civic (FG1) 5AT Rep Power: 17	A guy in my old unit had a 850Ci - didn't seem it was that troublesome for him as far as I can remember, but I could be wrong. Which generation Supra and RX-7 are you interested in (guessing MK-IV and FD)? It'll be difficult to find either one, fairly unmolested for a decent price. I would recommend looking at a Miata/MX-5 for a project car. __________________ That's SOOOO not Raven!

11-21-2011, 02:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Porsche 944? __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

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11-22-2011, 12:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
kaboomwoom Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA Posts: 4 Drives: 95 240sx Rep Power: 16	what about a datsun 240z?

11-22-2011, 01:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jeffblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Age: 36 Posts: 9,192 Drives: Z32TT & 335xi Coupe Rep Power: 38	the 8 series bmw.... parts are asrtonomically expensive... did anyone see that top gear where clarkson bought the 8 series bmw and spent like 3x what he paid for it within a month. 300zx: be ready to drop 10k on the car on top of what you paid for it. honestly if you really want a 300zx try and find a really good chassis and assume the motor is shot. don't expect to get much life out of the stock motor in a 100k+ mile factory twin turbo, especially since you'll want to mod it that will only decrease its life. supra... you'll pay a huge premium to get a supra... best bet would prolly be get an NA and buy a 2jz and do a swap.... a good alternative is getting a lexus sc300 and doing a 2jz swap. a factory TT supra will probably cost you more than those ferrari's you were thinking of. if you are willing to spend some cash and know you are going to put the car under the knife, do a proper 240sx build.... get a clean chassis, put in an sr20 or an rb25/26, s14 kouki front end. Would be a fun car. a lot of them end up looking like crap because people dont want to put the money into them they need. but dont bother getting one if you are just going to keep the KA motor because it's slow as sh1T.

11-22-2011, 01:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
Armonster Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 270 Drives: 2010 370z t/sp/6mt Rep Power: 14	Thanks for the responses. To clarify I was talking about a Mk IV supra and a FD rx-7; the older models look too dated to me. Same with the 944. I think you guys are right that there is a big premium on some of these cars because of their popularity. I looked into 8-series a bit more and they don't seem to have the same sort of premium. Most of them sell for under $15k, even with a bunch of work put into them. The downside is the cost of parts, but I wonder if it would be worth buying a really well-done 8 and then upgrading/fixing things one at a time. I don't mind having one or two minor projects/issues on my hands at any given time, but I don't have the knowledge or time to be doing full engine swaps or builds. Then again, if something breaks on the 8 it won't necessarily be "minor." Jeffblue do you have a link to that episode you were talking about? The 240z is an interesting option. I don't know too much about them, so maybe I'll check that out. Never been a big fan of the 240zx but it's the right idea. So many options out there!

11-22-2011, 01:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 120	the old 8's go cheap because they are expensive to keep running. It's just a long string of little petty things that aren't really a big deal by themselves, but they often add up to quite a headache. On the other hand, some of them seem to hold up just fine...

11-22-2011, 02:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jeffblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Age: 36 Posts: 9,192 Drives: Z32TT & 335xi Coupe Rep Power: 38	season 17 episode 3. Thats when they actually purchase the cars. then in later episodes they reference how much money he spent to keep the car running. Anthony, yea i definitely see what you mean. I mean if you are going to do a proper motor build i guess the KA is good but a lot of people's idea of a KA-T is just throwing a turbo on a KA motor, not building the motor or lowering the compression or anything. when i said get an sr-20 i mean get one and build it. a nice 240 or 280z would be cool too. get a chevy small block v8 and put it in. It's been done a million times but its still cool.

11-22-2011, 02:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
kaboomwoom Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA Posts: 4 Drives: 95 240sx Rep Power: 16

11-23-2011, 12:18 AM	#14 (permalink)
_ace_ Base Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: USA Posts: 140 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 14	I always thought the 8 series, and also some of the old Jaguar V12s, were cool cars. I would want a pretty hefty nest egg for issues before I would pick one up, and if you want to drive this car hard I would simply look elsewhere--you can get more fun for your overall money. Everything you break on a car like that will be hard to buy and costly. I always thought the Toyota 2000GT was pretty neat. Personally I'm starting to think putting together a 427 Cobra or Daytona coupe might make a fun project. Old american power can be cheap, they certainly don't lack power, and they look like a lot of fun to beat on. The chassis design and aero aren't anything to write home about, but I like them.