2012 Porsche Carrera... hmmm...
 

So I'm looking over my new copy of Automobile magazine and I see they have an article on the new Porsche Carrera and Carrera S.

Carrera = 3.4L that puts out 350 hp / 288 ft lbs torque for $83,000

Say what?!

Why the hell wouldn't you...
1. Buy a GTR for that $$$ or...
2. Buy a Z, put about 10K into it and go faster around the track and look better?

WTF?

The Carrera S model puts out 400 hp but now we're dangerously close to 100k with a price tag of $97,000 and change. Arguably my Z is close to that power (depending on what dyno is used ;)) and I'm not even force inducted yet.

So you're telling me that some corporate exec boring douche really (that OBVIOUSLY has money) wants to drive that boring car?? With those measly specs??

What gives here? I mean even if the GTR isn't your cup of tea, there are more interesting cars in that price range with undoubtedly better specs as far as power goes. :ugh2:

PS: the interior is nice yes... but not $50,000 nicer than the Z touring. Really Porsche?

While Porsche does overcharge for their cars because they can, you can't drive a spec sheet. I love driving my Z and have never had the pleasure of being behind the wheel of the Porsche so I can't compare, but doing a straight dollars to horsepower comparison is silly.

KB, you'd be paying a premium for that luxury badge.

It's not just a sporty car, it's a sporty car with prestige and the best materials and build quality. 911's are known as daily drivable sports cars.

I'd never pay that premium, but many do.

Its a Porsche, just like Ralph Lauren or Ed Hardy, you buy it for name brand.

Different strokes for different folks. Asking why someone would buy X car vs Y car is like asking some guy why he likes brunettes over blondes or redheads.




P.S. - comparing cars based on $ per hp they put out is horrible. Specs won't tell you how the driving dynamics are. If you want to make that argument, why would anyone want to pay 32k-40k for a 332hp V6 when they can get a 412hp V8...

When you buy a Porsche, the reason is this simple, you want to buy a Porsche.
It's supply and demand. People want to buy the car and are willing to pay for it. Are you mad at them for selling the car for that cost, or the people who can afford and prefer the car? LOL.

The 370Z is an awesome car, I'm glad I can afford it, and love it. If all I wanted was a Porsche, and decided that I wanted one, I wouldn't be fooling myself, and driving around a 370z.

This.

:werd:

some of it is the badge, some of it is the extra refinement. you just find diminishing returns on your money as prices go up...

$1800 tune ups. I just asked a guy yesterday about his 1995 911 (993).

The 4.1 0-60 time for the 2013 "S" is alright, gotta say.

Porsche delivers women. But then again $50,000 worth is questionable.

:tup:

What's funny is that Porsche nickel and dimes you for every little option too. Try pricing out a GT3! :eek:

I agree with you totally about the price to performance ratio but at the end of the day it's still a Porsche 911 and people will fork over the dough over a Z or GT-R when they can afford to and aren't really fans of Nissan's.

Not sure I really agree with you. I would much rather have a Porsche Carrera or Carrera S. In fact I'm pretty sure I'd rather have a Carrera S than a GTR, especially if you are talking about the 2012 Carrera.

:iagree: x1000

You buy a Porsche because you want a Porsche (and have the money).

Neither. I just don't think it's "refinement" or "build quality" is worth a difference of $50K over a Z.

And no, I don't think the "name" is worth the difference either. That's a huge margin.

911 is a totally different car than the Z. If you want to compare the Z to a Porsche, look at the Cayman. That's a far more reasonable comparo.

Why? Just curious, but why do you say that? A bit more luxury?

I mean, people cross shop Z's and Vettes, and they cross shop Vettes and 911's.

The 911 and Cayman both probably bury a Z on any race track, but they are all three sports cars.

Because then you are not comparing apples to apples. Let's face it, build refinement or not, the Carrera is much more comparable to a Z then say, a Camaro as far as "driving characteristics" go.

I'm not asking why someone likes a blonde compared to a brunette. I'm asking why the blond is charging so much for her services when the output is about the same as the brunettes.

Op- I think Hyundai buyers say the same thing about all cars. Why pay this when you can pay this and get the exact same thing?! :eek: :D

No. I gotta say that a Camaro or Mustang is a totally different car than a Z. And aside from a different body style and a few HP, a Cayman and a Carrera are essentially the same car. Maybe once you step up to a GT3/GT2 the changes become grossly apparent in many areas (such as suspension etc.) but to say that a Carrera and a Z are totally different.... I dunno...

Mainly because of price.

The Z cross-shops with cars like the Corvette/Mustang mainly because of price. Sure there are some people that are not price sensitive and will just buy whatever they want, but most people looking at a car in the sub $50k space are going to be looking at a pretty wide variety just because there are so many choices.

I tend to think that the typical NEW 911 buyer is not going to cross shop with a Z. A nicely optioned 911 Carerra is going to easily run you $100k+. I seriously doubt many people looking at that kind of price are going to look at a Z or anything else in the Z's price range.

That may be but with all my mods I'm neck and neck when I drop the hammer in 4th gear against my buddy's Genesis coupe with only an CAI and CBE. Kinda makes you think...

I don't think he has nearly the handling as my particular Z track wise but... :rolleyes:

I completely agree with you. I don't think they would look twice at the Z (oddly enough more people will look at my Z when parked next to a 911 though lol)

But that's just my argument. Surely there are better (more interesting at least) options in the 100K price range! :ugh2:

Z and Camaro/Mustang are definitely totally different, but they are competitors because of the price.

I don't think the 911 is anything like the Cayman. One is a large(ish) rear-engine, RWD/AWD 2+2 and the other is a mid-engine, small(ish) 2 seater.

911 comes in so many flavors, but the "typical" 911 is sort of like a GT car and a sports car mixed. To me, anyways. And it's a 911.

Red__Zed was shopping for GTR's and ended up buying a Z and a WRX. Just because you can afford a Porsche doesn't mean you will necessarily want to throw that kind of money into it.

I thought you were saying it was in a different class performance-wise.

If you primarily value performance for the dollar, then definitely. But I think most people that buy a 911 are not too concerned with the "per the dollar" part, they just want a 911.

I know I want one and have been mulling it over "because it's a 911." They are nice cars with a great history. Outright performance isn't really their forte, but they do just about everything and they do it very well, IMO. They really excel at the "being a 911" part of being a 911, too. ;)

:inoutroflpuke:

Nah, I'm completely ignoring performance. It's totally a price thing.

If I had $100k to spend on one car, and I really wanted a 911, god damnit I'm buying a 911!!!

But if I had up to $100k to spend on a car and was brand indifferent, and for whatever reason the Z tickled my fancy, I'd buy the Z and pocket the rest. But typically a buyer in that range is going to ignore our humble little price bracket completely. Bastards. :bowrofl:

Driven a bunch of Porsche Carreras. They are fun cars, the sound of the engine behind you rumbling is great, and the feel of driving a go cart, that's refined, awesome vehicle. They are my favorite convertible, and I would have no problem having one as a DD.

Even so -- I don't want one. I see why people like them. It's fair to wonder why people like them more, but have you driven one? As people keep saying, value is subjective, and a Z and a Porsche may be comparable in some respects, but are apples and oranges.

There was a similar thread to this not so long ago, a guy who wanted to snatch up and older whale back Porsche, the guy had his mind made up, and it was a huge argument about why he was "trading down". I prefer a modern car, and love the 370 Z. To each their own... The cost of a Porsche is as irrelevant as the performance numbers when you compare them side by side.

Agreed again. Don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to bash Porsche. In fact my favorite car in the world is the new GT2 RS. It eeks out the AM DBS in my book and I would take it over any car in the world (except maybe an F40)

I guess because money's tight in my camp at this point I tend to look at value in a different light these days. I mean I can't even afford my poor Z at this point. :o

I really don't want to start an internet fight since topics like this always lead to a lock.

My finally post in response to part of your comment is because they (Porsche) simply CAN. It's a "free" market and people with the means will buy what they want. It really is THAT simple I'm afraid.

In the end they are all great cars and as enthusiasts we should enjoy everything that is automotive related and stop with all the penis measuring that has been going on in this forum recently. Be happy with what you have and try not to get hung up on what the other person is driving. :tiphat:

Fair enough :tup:

It all depends on the buyer's needs. I mean, there are millionaires who drive beaters around town.

But you're right. If I want whatever car bad enough, I'm going to get it. :D

I will say this:

I cross shopped, very seriously, the Cayman S and the 370Z. At my price point of "up to $65k or so" I was mainly concerned with value. I ultimately chose the 370Z even though I thought the Cayman S was the better car because the Cayman S was not worth the $30k premium over the Z to me. The Porsche brand honestly means nothing to me UNLESS IT'S A 911 because god damnit if I am buying a Porsche it's going to be a god damn 911! I love them. :)

I know I said this already, but I'll say it again. If you are in the market for a 911, you are not a value shopper. ;)

And there it is! :tup::bowrofl:

I guess if I had 100K to spend on one car, I would want to make more of a statement than the boring "exec" car. (that's totally subjective btw..) but it's true because I said it :p

Yep. I have a $20m client that drives a Civic every day, and it's not even the top model.

It's really funny how trivial all of this car stuff is when we really take a step back and think about it. Ah well, it makes us happy! :tup::driving:

I've been thinking about buying the Cayman r. I know its just a little faster and not as reliable as a z but it's something I would pay extra just for the beauty of the car. I wouldn't spend $10k more for a 911 because I think the Cayman looks better. So yes some people don't buy sports cars because its the fastest.

When you really think about it, there's no way to explain WHY you bought a certain car other than to say... because!

This is America, god damnit. We drive whatever we damn well please. :usa:

Cars are pretty trivial at the end of the day. My wife was really literally on the verge of tears when I told her I was selling my Z because I'm out of work right now... I told her it's just a car. Metal and plastic and when things turn around and the time is right, I'll get another "baby". :tup:

Please see my avatar...

whether we can afford it or not:ugh2:

Sorry to hear about the financial troubles. I'm sure it will turn around in no time - then you can hop into a new Z with a built in oil cooler! :tup: