2012 Porsche Carrera... hmmm...

KillerBee370

Neither. I just don't think it's "refinement" or "build quality" is worth a difference of $50K over a Z.

And no, I don't think the "name" is worth the difference either. That's a huge margin.

m4a1mustang

911 is a totally different car than the Z. If you want to compare the Z to a Porsche, look at the Cayman. That's a far more reasonable comparo.

__________________
- Steve

Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!)
LIKE us on Facebook!

shadoquad

Why? Just curious, but why do you say that? A bit more luxury?

I mean, people cross shop Z's and Vettes, and they cross shop Vettes and 911's.

The 911 and Cayman both probably bury a Z on any race track, but they are all three sports cars.

m4a1mustang

Mainly because of price.

The Z cross-shops with cars like the Corvette/Mustang mainly because of price. Sure there are some people that are not price sensitive and will just buy whatever they want, but most people looking at a car in the sub $50k space are going to be looking at a pretty wide variety just because there are so many choices.

I tend to think that the typical NEW 911 buyer is not going to cross shop with a Z. A nicely optioned 911 Carerra is going to easily run you $100k+. I seriously doubt many people looking at that kind of price are going to look at a Z or anything else in the Z's price range.

__________________
- Steve

Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!)
LIKE us on Facebook!

KillerBee370

I completely agree with you. I don't think they would look twice at the Z (oddly enough more people will look at my Z when parked next to a 911 though lol)

But that's just my argument. Surely there are better (more interesting at least) options in the 100K price range!

m4a1mustang

If you primarily value performance for the dollar, then definitely. But I think most people that buy a 911 are not too concerned with the "per the dollar" part, they just want a 911.

I know I want one and have been mulling it over "because it's a 911." They are nice cars with a great history. Outright performance isn't really their forte, but they do just about everything and they do it very well, IMO. They really excel at the "being a 911" part of being a 911, too.

__________________
- Steve

Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!)
LIKE us on Facebook!

KillerBee370

Agreed again. Don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to bash Porsche. In fact my favorite car in the world is the new GT2 RS. It eeks out the AM DBS in my book and I would take it over any car in the world (except maybe an F40)

I guess because money's tight in my camp at this point I tend to look at value in a different light these days. I mean I can't even afford my poor Z at this point.

shadoquad

Red__Zed was shopping for GTR's and ended up buying a Z and a WRX. Just because you can afford a Porsche doesn't mean you will necessarily want to throw that kind of money into it.

I thought you were saying it was in a different class performance-wise.

m4a1mustang

Nah, I'm completely ignoring performance. It's totally a price thing.

If I had $100k to spend on one car, and I really wanted a 911, god damnit I'm buying a 911!!!

But if I had up to $100k to spend on a car and was brand indifferent, and for whatever reason the Z tickled my fancy, I'd buy the Z and pocket the rest. But typically a buyer in that range is going to ignore our humble little price bracket completely. Bastards.

__________________
- Steve

Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!)
LIKE us on Facebook!

shadoquad

Fair enough

It all depends on the buyer's needs. I mean, there are millionaires who drive beaters around town.

But you're right. If I want whatever car bad enough, I'm going to get it.

KillerBee370

And there it is!

I guess if I had 100K to spend on one car, I would want to make more of a statement than the boring "exec" car. (that's totally subjective btw..) but it's true because I said it

KillerBee370

No. I gotta say that a Camaro or Mustang is a totally different car than a Z. And aside from a different body style and a few HP, a Cayman and a Carrera are essentially the same car. Maybe once you step up to a GT3/GT2 the changes become grossly apparent in many areas (such as suspension etc.) but to say that a Carrera and a Z are totally different.... I dunno...

m4a1mustang

Z and Camaro/Mustang are definitely totally different, but they are competitors because of the price.

I don't think the 911 is anything like the Cayman. One is a large(ish) rear-engine, RWD/AWD 2+2 and the other is a mid-engine, small(ish) 2 seater.

911 comes in so many flavors, but the "typical" 911 is sort of like a GT car and a sports car mixed. To me, anyways. And it's a 911.

__________________
- Steve

Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!)
LIKE us on Facebook!

autopc25

You really "donno".

They are really different and have totally different driving dynamics. A Z is front engine. A cayman is a mid engine. The C2 is a rear engine.

Try looking past printed 0-60, 1/4 mile, HP/TQ. You need to drive a Porsche to understand why some people are willing to pay the huge premium to drive them. Road feel, braking, steering feel, balance, driver inspired confidence, refinement it's all there.

There are a few exceptions like early 997.1 and Caymans with oil starvation and oil seal failures. For the most part they hold up to harder then normal use better then most cars. Not too many cars you can drive hard on a track with not much to modified.

A Z is a great car for it's price point but not a Porsche. A Porsche offers near supercar performance and can be driven as a daily driver due to it's refinement. Most people who question a P-Car have never actually driven one or is not financially ready to buy one yet.

GT-R is super deal, offers super performance that is superior to most Porsche models, but not nearly as refined as a daily driver as a Porsche. I can understand putting up with all the transmission noises and stiff suspension though. The GT-R is really one of those super great cars at any price.