Careful what you wish for! VW, Audi, Porsche, BMW etc are having all kinds of issues with Valve deposits. With direct injection, you no longer have the cleansing effects of fuel passing through the intake track, keeping the valves clean etc. I think Toyota has an upstream aux. injector to deal with this on theirs.

Doubt there will be a retrofit as the fuel rail runs at 2000 psi+ with direct injection! In the hands of your average DIY semi-skilled guy this would be a disaster waiting to happen!

Mine's already putting out 440hp plus.....so I'm not holding my breath on this!

VW 2.0 FSI direct injected engine:

http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanirel...P6156forFB.jpg

I figured Modshack would be in here soon enough to show that picture. That's why I'm not really worried about DI at all. It doesn't phase me.

Plus, when you can just slap a supercharger on and put 525-625 to the wheels on a stock engine, does it really matter if DI is going to net you a little bit more power? Beyond 450 to the wheels on a street car you're just talking numbers for the sake of numbers.

For those that think the Stang will outhandle the Z.... no. It will not. That is like those of us Z owners that rationalize the Z has a better fit and finish and is faster than the new Cayman S. It is not. Sure there are things we can do to make it fast as/faster, but pound for pound no.

The same exist with the Stang. It is not a GTR that defies the laws of physics. It is the 70's all over again. The Stang is the Muscle, the Z is the Sport. The Stang has the power, the Z has the handling (as m4a1mustang said above). The Stang is like Superman and will take you out with just a powerful thump, whereas the Z is like Batman, more ninja like with a degree of power.

Take your pick and no bashing other! We are all Superfriends!! The bad guys are the Camaros and Challengers. And the Vettes are like Darkseid to us both; they can kick both of us around.

Nissan should have gone with Brembos for the new Z. m4a1mustang, you still should have got the Boss!

The Z outhandles the Mustang, but like I was saying, not by much. Stock for stock the Mustang will beat the Z on any track (save for maybe an autoX), it just won't put up the skidpad (.97 vs. .99) or slalom numbers the Z does. That's really it.

This is a very surprising car.

I said it before and I'll say it again. The 370Z reminded me a lot of a previous Mustang I owned. The Z to me is kind of like a Japanese Mustang... almost always the underdog and almost always exceeding expectations.

Both cars are excellent values and both cars take the fight to much, much higher end products. I'm lucky to have owned both. :tup:

Well... as long as the Z does not have an oil cooler, the Stang will ALWAYS beat it on the track. I still think the Z handily outhandles the Stang from my experience. The slalom numbers have always been a pretty good indicator aside from real world experience. The Z truly does handle more like a Cayman S; the Stang is just not there to me. The 350z may have been the Japanese Mustang, but this 370z feels more like a Japenese Porsche to me.

What mods are you planning for the GT?

Exhaust and intake/tune for the engine initially. FRPP has a handling pack out with upgraded shocks/struts, sways, springs, etc that looks pretty nice.

As soon as I get a second car it's getting a blower.

I wouldn't say handily outhandles. I think the biggest difference is in feel. The Z is a sports car and has a much more direct, responsive feel than the Mustang. Based on driving the two cars in anger, I feel like the Mustang has a sharper turn-in, better brakes, and overall a better balance. It's very neutral and easy to rotate in the corners unlike the Z which is very understeery from the factory with it's staggered tire setup.

In my opinion the cars achieve similar results but do it in different ways. I don't think the 370Z vs. 5.0 is a good comparison to begin with, but since I left the Z for one I inevitably end up making the comparison in conversation.

I still stand by the fact that these are two of the best cars money can buy at the moment. In a perfect world I will have the 5.0 and a 370Z Roadster. :tup:

Keep in mind that's stock for stock.

If I wanted to build a track car I think I'd start with a base 370 coupe and start from there. :D

The Stang could certainly out handle the Z in the hands of a capable driver. Just watch this video to see how well the Stang can take the corners.
YouTube - The Falken Azenis RT-615K, How Much Faster Is It?

Also remember Car and Driver tested a bunch of cars at VIR and there was a 1 second difference between the 2010 Mustang GT and 2009 Nismo 370Z. Just imagine what the 2011 Mustang GT would do time wise on this same track. Just goes to show the GT is no slouch in the handling dept anymore.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p_2009-feature

I understand being pissed off, just not being pissed off at Ford (which was your original point). You should be more pissed at yourself for lack of research than at Ford for improving a product "too much". Say you bought a 2011 that only boosted HP 50 hp but found out later the 2012 had another 50 hp they "self limited" off the 2011 so they wouldn't look "unfair". Now you got all the 2011 owners pissed off for them limiting the 2011 for no technological or cost reason. See? As far as being "fair" to Chevy...that's just beyond thoughtful discussion. :D

Buy what you want now, otherwise you'll spend your whole life waiting for something better.

Should have waited for the 2055! I hear it has plaid speed.

:yum:

colonel sanders says we're going straight to ludicrous speed.

The torque was responsible for that; and remember the base Z w/sport is faster than the Nismo. I love the GT and it has made advances in handling, but still not with the Z; maybe closer to the 350z, but not the 370.


GRANTED, I cannot remember what the stock Z is like that much any more as I have not be on stock suspension since May......

am going to have to agree big with this, my brother in law traded in his LS1 trans AM for a 5.0 last wednesday and we swapped cars, went on a few cruises, and even had some fun! I will say that the dam tranny in the 5.0 is butter...feels better than the 370z. both my bro in law and i came to the same conclusions after driving each other cars. The Z does handle substantially better. And the 5.0 is Faster...stop or roll...the 5.0 is amazing machine...Its almost impossible for me to say anything negative about this car, and if i did it would be a nit pick...the guages reminded me of an old watch for some reason.

The gauges always bothered me but for one reason or another I really like them now. And as gimicky as it is, MyColor is awesome.

So very true.

Z may be "a little bit better" in feel and handling, but it's not enough to offset the amount of power that the Mustang has. You can't say that the Z will be as fast as the Mustang on a track without saying that the Z will as fast as a E92 BMW M3 on a track...

There's no point for Nissan putting on a oil cooler now because what that will let mags do an objective comparison of the 370z vs. the 5.0 on a track and Nissan knows that the 370z will not be able to keep pace with the 5.0 on anything but an autox.

:facepalm:

thanks for sharing with what I assume SHOULD be your own personal experience with both vehicles...correct?! BTW no one is trying to downplay the 5.0 here....am having flash backs of driving it like a wild night of sex that I was to drunk to recollect...but wanna remember and experience moooaarr

Exactly. Not downplaying the 5.0 by any means. I am just saying, let's keep it real. The Stang is not a better handler. That is like saying the M3 handles better than a Cayman S. NOPE!

Power, yes, the 5.0 does have. And it is not a bad handler by any means. Just not with the Z.

And, the Z still needs an oil cooler.

I still don't think the difference is that great in handling. And I stand by my statement that the Mustang is better balanced. The Z has a lot of understeer from the factory... too much, IMO.

And I don't see how torque is going to be the key to the 2010 Mustang keeping up so well at VIR, a horsepower track. The 370Z is faster in a straight line than the 2010 Mustang GT and slightly better under braking than the track-pack 2010. It's all chassis that's keeping the Mustang close. Not torque. I've run there before and there's no point on that track where the 370Z isn't going to pull a 2010 Mustang (stock for stock).

Anyways, the Z needs an oil cooler but not from the factory. 9 out of 10 Z's that are sold will never see a situation that requires one, so it makes more sense to let the end user deal with it.

For those who haven't seen/read this it's a pretty good review. Pobst is a pretty respected driver. Looks like with a set of shocks, the Mustang would have been the clear winner Vs. a virtual tie... Be sure to watch the video!

M3 Vs the Pony: 2011 BMW M3 Coupe vs. 2011 Ford Mustang GT Comparison - Motor Trend

Agreed. Shocks and you're all set. :tup:

Pobst indicated that the Mustang was quite unstable at speed. That would be a thumbs-down in the course of a race. This is a comparison of stock vs stock. Aftermarket shocks would improve the M3 as well, no doubt. And the nose dive...

No one ever said it was an M3.

A lot is being said that it's as good as an M3. Perhaps, since the 5.0 is a Premium Package and not a stock Mustang, this should be the M3 comparison vehicle?

2011 BMW M3 Competition Package First Drive - Motor Trend

So Sync and leather seats make it go better?????????????

All we're saying is that the GT is a great package for $30K less than an M3. Pobst seems to agree ("God Bless America") , and a $500 set of shocks will make it even better and address (most) of his concerns.. The M3 is a great car, but so is the GT. I'll keep the $30K in my pocket thanks!

The M3 DOES handle better than the Cayman S. And the '11 Mustang GT has OUT HANDLED the Nissan 370z. The Mustang can even out handle the Cayman!! Oh boy You're just full of assumptions aren't you?

At VIR:
Cayman S 3:05.8
BMW M3 3:05.4

At Willow Springs
Cayman S 1:28
BMW M3 1:27
'11 Mustang GT 1:27
Nissan 370Z 1:28

At Laguna Seca
Cayman S 1:43
BMW M3 1:42

At Nordschleife:
Cayman S 8:06
BMW M3 8:05

At Autozeitung:
Cayman S 1:41
BMW M3 1:40

Completely agree that the new GT is incredible for the price. No argument there. This comparison reminds me of the endless 370Z vs Cayman argument. Yes, the 370Z is a great car for the price. But it's no Cayman.

annnddd

http://avatarfarm.com/forum/forumima...sterthread.jpg

Easy Seabreeeze.............:ugh2:

:rofl2:

Ok so... for 30+k over the price of the stang, the M3 gives better overall handling/braking dynamics, even by a small margin. Better looks, and more clout? -- just an opinion.

And for the stang vs the Z at relatively the same price the stang gives more straight line speed by a good margin. And overall handling/braking dynamics are slightly better in the Z. Better looks in the Z and i would say street cred is fairly similar between the two cars. The exotic card going in the Z's favor. And stang has the red neck slap your sister on the butt and kiss your mother and like it cred :icon17: i kid i kid!

Actually, the Mustang gets the nod under braking. ;) And I still stand by my balance comment. The Z has a lot of understeer, the Mustang is very neutral. But the Z has more lateral grip and stock-for-stock it's suspension keeps up with quick directional changes a bit better than the Mustang.

Oh and the Z has a better feel.