2012 Mazda RX7?

370sed

As an RX-8 owner, and a track addict I can tell you, without question, that if this comes to pass, certainly the Z would have something to worry about on track. I mean really ~700lb less weight than the Z, only down ~50HP? The end-goal has been said to be a Porsche Cayman weight sports car with a Rotary engine, at a far nicer price.

But it's a crap shoot as to whether this will ever even be seen even in concept - forget production. It's akin to the holy grail relative to today's RENESIS rotary. So I wouldn't hold my breath, but then again I wouldn't be surprised either, after all, with the demise of the RX-7 everyone thought the rotary was dead..until the RX-8!

What would be required:
1) More power, more torque
2) 10-15% weight savings
3) Better fuel economy
4) Better emmisions
5) Still affordable

Endgame

Then how does the Cayman get away with a 2900 pound weight?

I could see 200-300 due to safety guidelines, but not the 400-500 you suggest.

370sed

What I've been wondering (about Porsche) myself but I guess "Less is More" - $$$$ that is LOL!

As for how Mazda is going to loose the weight, from their press release on the subject:

Crash

Ever been in a Porsche? There's nothing but a seat a wheel and some gauges. The Ruff Porsches don't even have door handles. They have pull strings! Believe me, the Cayman doesn't weigh anything because their is nothing.

That's already a stripped car that weighs 2900. You think Mazda is going to come out with a stripped car that they can sell? Especially thinking they can get the car down to 2650!!!??? HELL no!

That car is going to break 3100 EASY! The ZR1 is almost all carbon fiber and it weighs more than 3200 Lbs! AND IT'S A RACE CAR!!!! No way the RX-7 is getting close to 2650.

My Solstice weighs in at exactly 3000 Lbs with 1/2 a tank of gas. And there's almost NOTHING to that car. I'd be VERY impressed if Mazda can produce a car that weighs even 2900Lbs straight from the factory.

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2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled
2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

tvfreakazoid

It will still be a nice competitor. I hope it does come out. Maybe it won't be 2600lbs but if it hits 3k all they have to do is bump the hp to 300 or so.

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Mudders milk

370sed

A Cayman doesn't have anything? That's the first time I've heard that lol! Nothing certainly does cost a pretty penny...

...but....Have you ever been in an RX-8? It's a 4 dr sedan. It's far from stripped down, not a Lexus, but good materials, solid, 4 adult useable (2 heated) leather seats, sunroof, Bose, etc. I've added heavier solid sway bars, coilovers, f/r 4-pt strutbars, PC680 bat, etc and ....when corner weighted with 150lb sandbag in the front seat (aka me)....3147lbs

... so my RX-8 is ~3,000lbs. Taking away 220lb (100kg) gets to 2780lbs.... sounds reasonable with the removal of 2 rear seats, sunroof, some wheelbase & bodywork...more aluminum... 2700-2800lb shouldn't be THAT hard for Mazda.

Mazda KNOWS weight is the enemy of everything good in a sports car

Endgame

??? I said the RX car would be 2650 + 200 or 300 pounds with the new safety regs, bringing the car to a 2850-2950 pound weight. The Cayman is definately not a stipped car! GT3 RS= stripped, Cayman, no....

As 370sed stated, look at the RX8; it weighs 3050 now and it is have all the new safety features. Take out the rear seats, shortened the chasis and you could easily drop 150-200 pounds.

Lastly, the ZR1 weighs more like 3300 pounds, the Z06 weighs 3130. Even still, what weighs them down the most? THEIR ENGINE!! The Rotary cars chasis weighs about par with most other sport cars; their savings come from the wieght of the Rotary engine versus a piston engine. Put a 2 Rotor in a ZR1 and watch the weight come down at least 300-450 pounds if not more.

Crash

LS7 doesn't way much. It weighs a couple more pounds than an LS1 which weighs 475Lbs. That's VERY light for a V8. You want to talk about heavy motors, Exotics have HEAVY motors at the same displacement. The LS9 weights about 100Lbs more than the LS7 because of the supercharger and extra liquid cooling. Both motors use dry-sump so they're a tad heavier there, but the reason why the Corvette weighs as much as it does is it's frame which is a FANTASTIC platform. So there's no sacrifice.

Granted the RX-8 weighs 3060 (as what I've read), but I still don't see them dropping that much weight. The smaller the car, the more strict the safety standards are.

ALL Porsches are stripped down. Just some more than others. I used to work at a Porsche dismantler.

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2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled
2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

Endgame

Right, whereas the Rotarys weigh about 200 pounds. So a 300 pound different at least from the V8's.

The RX8's have already passed the safety standards! When orginally released, they weighted 2950; now they weigh 3050. Again, minus the two seats and they very well could shave the 200- 250 pounds. Remember, the 16X engine is lighter than the current engine.

Where Nissan could not shed weight by getting smaller (engine weight added the 42 pounds), Mazda can as their new larger engine weighs less. Very feasible and IF this comes to past, the 370Z MAY have to worry about it.

Guess we will see.

travisjb

Um, yes. Before my Z, I've owned and tracked a boxster s for the last for years... all the necessary luxuries, with nothing unnecessary I agree... still, it only got light after I swapped out parts from the factory for aftermarket... had it down to 3050 with driver... even then, had 7" nav/dvd, a/c, even door and door handles! ... porsche is all about balance and handling, not absolute min weight... And, yes, I've driven Ruf cars as well... here's a couple pics from a recent 'pilgrimage' I made to Pfafenhausen... door handles everywhere Ruf customers are not driving at the racetrack, they are generally mega-rich guys driving on the street or collecting

I'm personally looking forward to a new Rx-7 ! Had a gen 1 ('79) and gen 2 ('85)... wrecked both sadly, so hopefully now with a few more gray hairs I can keep the next one out of trouble! First one especially was a great car!

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tvfreakazoid

I hear that the rotary engines are expensive to fix if something goes wrong with them since it has less moving parts. I also heard that those engines won't last as long as a piston engine.

Well I hope mazda brings back the rx-7. I saw some more drawing of it and I didn't like it all that much, except for the front. I hope they improve on the looks. I also read that they might make it a turbo. I read that they are working on a forced inductions for it.

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Mudders milk

Crash

From those pics, I see a Ruf Cr3. Is that what you have?

Not ALL Ruf cars are tracked out. My old boss's speedball weighed close to 2500Lbs (as far as I recall) and was the most basic of interiors possible. But that was certainly a track car. (Though he drives it like a daily. LOL) Yeah, the Ruf cars are mega money, and I've worked for a lot of the richest guys in Los Angeles.

I'm not talking about what you CAN make a car weigh. I'm talking about what it DOES weigh from the factory. Anyone can strip a car and replace parts with after-market light weight parts... But what I'm saying is that the RX-7 will certainly leave no room for improvement if they DID meet their weight goal. (Which I still don't think they can if they follow the rules.) But it's true that a rotary motor weighs practically nothing, and that stripping the back seats from an RX-8 and shortening the chassis is going to reduce weight. I just don't think it's 200Lbs worth of weight. Hypothetically, if they're already using light weight materials as is, then they're stripping light-weight materials in the first place...

So take a step back an look at the big picture. The chassis will be a couple inches shorter, the motor will be, what, maybe 20Lbs lighter (if). And You don't have back seats. I see (with the motor weight) maybe 160-180Lbs difference. Then because the car is smaller and lighter, the safety standards change and become more strict adding more weight. Keep in mind that Mazda is already going to be taking a lot of these steps ahead of time to save money and time in the development, while also trying to get away with what every they can.

Now I don't disagree that if the car can even get down to about 3000Lbs that the RX-7 won't be a good contender, and I would LOVE to see another RX-7. I just think that 2650Lbs is a pipe-dream. I'm not trying to be argumentative... Just realistic.

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2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled
2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

Endgame

Remember, the RX8 is already 3050 pounds. Thus, even with the 160-180 LBS loss you theorize, that would mean a curb weight of 2890 at least using your numbers. I agree the 2650 may be farfetched, but 2800-2900 is definately attainable. BTW - Mazda plans to use a new, lighter chasis for any new 7; so yes, it would be potentially even lighter.

And, I think there will still be options to lower weight (wheels, battery, etc). HOWEVER, Crash, I think where they will not be much room for improvement is with tuning. I bet any gains, aside from going FI, will be minimal.

That said, if the 370z can hang with a Cayman S (a little more weight than RX7 and much more HP) on a track/in the twisties, I would think it should be able to best this new RX7 on the track. Advantage RX7 in twisties, Advantage Z on full track runs.

Again, we will see come mid to late 2011.....

Crash

I definitely look forward to it. Rotaries have always loved boost. I can imagine that this will be a big deal when it happens. Any word on testing 16x with boost yet?

My friend's building a Porsche 930 with a TT Dual Rotor. His original plans were for a 3 rotor, but couldn't afford it. Either way, he's getting the entire built motor with turbos for dirt cheap. I have some video of me racing an FD somewhere. I'll find it. It was a 350HP FD (supposedly) but I honestly don't believe it. It was an interesting race, though. 3-way desert race between my 2002 Trans Am WS.6, my friends 1997 Formula Firebird, and the FD.

I really liked the FDs, and I always wanted one. But I just couldn't bring myself to buy a car with a motor that's a ticking time bomb. LOL

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2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled
2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

Lug

I had an early RX7 for over 10 years and had to rebuild the carburetor once. That was the sum total of nonscheduled maintenance. Rotary engines are expensive to work because not many mechanics have experience with them but as long as you don't let the oil get low, they are practically indestructable. They get poor gas mileage for their displacement but are unbeatable when it comes to power vs weight/size. I have always thought Lotus should have used the mazda engine in their Elise and Exige models instead of the Toyota. Would have been a better fit.

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