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Track sessions are 20-30 minutes long. Even at 30 minutes at an average of 60mph, you really only need enough fuel for 30 miles. In the Z, you won't even

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Old 03-11-2019, 01:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Track sessions are 20-30 minutes long. Even at 30 minutes at an average of 60mph, you really only need enough fuel for 30 miles. In the Z, you won't even get there because fuel starvation will kick in long before the end of the 30 minutes. I am sure you are good enough to figure that out since your math is so good.

Now you are moving from the Department of Energy loan program to the tax incentives where Nevada gave Tesla. You do know the difference between a tax incentive to build a plant vs. a loan right? Didn't Scott Walker give Foxconn $3m in incentives to build in Wisconsin too? I guess you are right, the plan is failing horribly, the gigafactory factory is just a mirage. The people in Sparks Nevada are giving away their home due to the failure. https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2018/...is/1619609002/

Maybe it is time for a Bombardier type bailout, can we get JT to help out?

The tax incentives were implemented to help speed up the adoption of zero emission vehicle (you can say less emission or whatever you want to call it).
You might not like it, but you pay for it sooner or later through the damages caused by the change in storm intensity. I worked as an actuary, storm intensity due to climate change was part of the rate adjustment we factored in.

You can say you are being taxed unfairly, but I can argue the same because I have to pay for gas/oil subsidy unwillingly either. How do we settle the score on that?

Unlike you, I have both EV and gas cars. I am not badmouthing gas cars because I hate them, I just think we are at a point where people seriously have to consider changing their habits if it is possible. If you are in a fortunate situation where you can make a choice to help, maybe sacrifice a little for others. I am not religious, but I believe in karma. Maybe karma is coming back to allow me to get a Ferrari this or next year and gave me a chance to put a deposit on a roadster.

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I believe in math. And common sense.

There are lots of other chargers around. Not all Superchargers (cost CDN$40K each), and most of them you have to pay for hydro at, unlike Tesla chargers. Tesla had to invest in the network because of the chicken-and-egg issue with EV’s, and range anxiety.

50 miles range? I get that on the track with my ICE. :-)

Yeah, no. You’re spouting Muskovite BS. The incentives for the Gigawatt battery factory will never be repaid and don’t have to be.

For now, for the <5% who operate EV’s there is little impact on the grid. Or on climate.

False. If you drive an EV in West Virginia, or Eastern Europe, or China, you drive a coal powered car. My V8 pickuo pollutes less.

I don’t understand your comment about taxes you paid. Because it make no sense. If yu buy a $100,000 car, you pay taxes on it. Congratulations. But if you buy a $100,000 Tesla in my province, until recently when a new government finally saw sense, you paid $93K for it and I paid the $7,000 difference (you are welcome, sort of). And you paid tax on $93,000 whereas I bought a pickup that I need for the farm and paid tax on the whole amount.

Over 33% of the dollars I pump into my fuel tank every week is tax, which pays for roads (and incentives to EV owners). Electricity, on the other hand, is taxed here at 7%. And electric power rates are heavily subsidized (by general government coffers = tax revenue) in order to avoid mass rebellion. So again, I am subsidizing electric vehicles.

Nuclear makes up more than 60% if our energy supply, water 25%, natural gas 10%, and “renewables” (solar, wind and biomass) about 5%. But wholesale prices of power are $0.045/KWh. Renewables are being paid between $0.75 and $0.90 to generate KWh. You want us to increase that generation capacity???

Sorry. Math and logic. Go pour another glass of that purple drink!
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You might not like it, but you pay for it sooner or later through the damages caused by the change in storm intensity.
Linking increases in storm intensity directly to vehicle emissions is reckless and misguided. This type of negligent thinking is a big part of the problem.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Linking increases in storm intensity directly to vehicle emissions is reckless and misguided. This type of negligent thinking is a big part of the problem.
Sue the EPA ad NOAA then. It took two seconds to search for them

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sou...-gas-emissions

https://oceantoday.noaa.gov/fuelforthestorm/
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:12 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Sue the EPA ad NOAA then. It took two seconds to search for them

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sou...-gas-emissions

https://oceantoday.noaa.gov/fuelforthestorm/


Your suggestion to sue is stupid, as well as representative of the ridiculously litigious attitude in our society these days

I trust the EPA just as much as I trust the FDA and Big Pharma. Don't think for one second they don't have agendas they are pushing.

And those studies you linked are missing tangible evidence that greenhouse gases are responsible for increasing storm intensity. There are a lot of variables at play with regard to climate change. Humans always like to think they are big and important. But the fact is the sun influences weather on earth FAR more than humans currently do.

Now obviously emissions are on the rise pretty significantly based on technological progress and human population growth on earth. And that is certainly a good reason to start looking into alternative energy sources. But we also need to look at our current sources and see what changes we can make to help mitigate the impact. Short-sighted energy alternatives presented in a fear-mongering atmosphere are a waste of time and resources.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:39 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Now you are moving from the Department of Energy loan program to the tax incentives where Nevada gave Tesla. You do know the difference between a tax incentive to build a plant vs. a loan right? Didn't Scott Walker give Foxconn $3m in incentives to build in Wisconsin too? I guess you are right, the plan is failing horribly, the gigafactory factory is just a mirage. The people in Sparks Nevada are giving away their home due to the failure. https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2018/...is/1619609002/

Maybe it is time for a Bombardier type bailout, can we get JT to help out?

The tax incentives were implemented to help speed up the adoption of zero emission vehicle (you can say less emission or whatever you want to call it).
You might not like it, but you pay for it sooner or later through the damages caused by the change in storm intensity. I worked as an actuary, storm intensity due to climate change was part of the rate adjustment we factored in.

You can say you are being taxed unfairly, but I can argue the same because I have to pay for gas/oil subsidy unwillingly either. How do we settle the score on that?
I think I am quite clear about the difference between a loan and a grant. I never mentioned loans. "Government handouts and incentives" was the term I used, and the Nevada deal was a doozie. Your knee-jerk response is just wanting to defend the indefensible. And you can have JT and his tom-foolery if you want him, 'cuz we don't. ;-)

The tax incentives were there as a government gift to manufacturers of EV's, who didn't therefore have to produce a competitive product. It was far easier to lobby politicians and charm them into thinking it would look "green" on their CV, than to do the work to get the cost of the car and the technology down. Or to convince consumers to pay the extra cost and "take one for the team" as it were.

I'm not against electrics. But I think that Fuel Cell will be the way of the future and for governments to force the market's hand like this is not appropriate.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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We will trade you Trump for JT, we will add Ivanka and Jared.

Nissan received state incentives to move to TN, the state incentive is nothing new. Every state tries to lure business with incentives. You should call all these big companies welfare users.

The tax credit was used to encourage sale of zero or super low emission vehicle. You are right it helped launch the product, the government did it to encourage zero to low emission vehicle. Given 8% of new cars sold in CA have a plug now, I would say the incentive did its job to encourage more sales. CA sold 2 million cars last year, I think all of Canada sold that much.

Toyota Mirai is doing great, selling about 300 copies a month. Leases are $400 per month with zero down. You can get a free hydrogen card too.


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I think I am quite clear about the difference between a loan and a grant. I never mentioned loans. "Government handouts and incentives" was the term I used, and the Nevada deal was a doozie. Your knee-jerk response is just wanting to defend the indefensible. And you can have JT and his tom-foolery if you want him, 'cuz we don't. ;-)

The tax incentives were there as a government gift to manufacturers of EV's, who didn't therefore have to produce a competitive product. It was far easier to lobby politicians and charm them into thinking it would look "green" on their CV, than to do the work to get the cost of the car and the technology down. Or to convince consumers to pay the extra cost and "take one for the team" as it were.

I'm not against electrics. But I think that Fuel Cell will be the way of the future and for governments to force the market's hand like this is not appropriate.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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No fixes are going to happen overnight, all we can do is minimize our output if possible.
This applies the same with natural resources, food and many other things.
on that we are in agreement.

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We will trade you Trump for JT, we will add Ivanka and Jared.

...
No deal!

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Old 03-11-2019, 04:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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on that we are in agreement.



No deal!


Well, that deal could be worse. I mean he could have been offering Hillary.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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on that we are in agreement.



No deal!

We add a player to be named later? Our first round draft pick mike pence? We will eat some salary too
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