OK, maybe its me...

osbornsm

I spent 3 hours last weekend installing brake ducts on my '18 Camaro.
- My arms now look as though i've been attacked by a dog.

So it's possible, JUST MAYBE... that I'm not driving correctly on the road course.

My fellow track rats have mentioned that i "square off" corners. It never hit me until i installed brake ducting on my 3rd vehicle.

Perhaps I should round those corners more and carry more speed!! (duh?)
- My lap times are pretty cool, but my brakes are pretty hot.
--------------------------------------------------------

My solution was to buy TI backing plates as well as ducting and add those next time i'm on the road course.

I shall return with results once it's traction season again.
~ Sean

Here's to cooler temps and shorter laps

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God-Speed

When I was racing Motocross many years ago, I learned something from a Super Cross Champion that helped me. "Sometimes you have to go slow in order to go fast."
David Bailey.

danegrey

For some of us that is very hard to do......

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Lots of Changes
the Z needs to be driven and driven hard for the car lives for it

God-Speed

Remember my young jeti, you can never win the race on the first lap, but you can definitely lose it. "Consistency is Speed!"

ZCanadian

Yeah... it's just you.

But seriously...
You know that quote about straights being for fast cars, corners for fast drivers? It's true!

Not sure what your earlier cars were, but you can learn a lot about managing momentum properly from tracking a low HP vehicle like a Miata. If you over-brake that car, you pay for it on the next straight and ultimately with slower lap times as it simply does not have the grunt to cover up your mistake on corner entry by blasting out of the corner with tire-shredding power. Again, I don't know your experience level (and don't mean this as an insult by any means - we are all just students and event the best track drivers are still learning things or refining them at least), but all drivers would do well to learn on a "momentum car" before graduating to something more powerful. Once you can start enjoying the startled look on the faces of drivers of higher powered cars as you pass them, you are ready for more! And believe me, THAT'S a great feeling.

Find an experienced person at your local track who's driving you admire, and ask him if you can go for a ride-along. Watch his lines and brake points carefully - those might not be the same as for you and your car, but try to understand why he drives them (don't be afraid to ask him). Perhaps he might agree to go out with you and give you some pointers. Better yet, find a proper instructor. Sometimes those are harder to find, but look for local tracking facebook groups or ask around - but don't just trust Bubba because he says he's an "instructor". Go to a proper school like Barber, or one of the Porsche or BMW experience places for really good lessons.

I can recommend Skip Barber's book "Going Faster" as a really good primer, or a way to fill in gaps in your education if you prefer to learn from a text.

This is getting long, so I'll gather my thoughts and post again...

ZCanadian

Everyone uses the brakes differently.
Perhaps brake ducting is the answer. Or maybe changing your technique is a better answer.
One thing to keep in mind - adding brake ducting will put you in a much tougher class in time attack or auto cross.

Consider this quote:
"A lot of people jump on the brakes very hard. I was always a guy who braked, for the most part, very easy. I didn’t use up the brakes at all since I tended to roll off the throttle and onto the brake more easily.
“To put it in perspective, at Laguna Seca, which is hard on brakes, Rick Mears and I were teammates at Penske and Rick finished the race with only 70 thousandths of an inch of brake pad material left. I only used 70 thousandths of the pad in winning the race. People brake differently but can still run the same lap time, especially in a race."
- Danny Sullivan

That's driving the same cars. Different cars (weight & distribution, brake bias, grip, brake effectiveness) have to be driven through corners differently. The general "racing line" is typically the rule, though. Straighten the corners, don't square them. Squaring the corners is a sign of early or late apexing (depending on where you are doing the sharper turn). Be accurate. Be consistent. That's how to drive fast.

A few thoughts which help me..
#1 - LOOK where you are going - before the braking zone look to turn in, before the end of the braking zone look to the apex and even past that to track-out. This will help you gauge the speed you need, turn-in point to apex properly, and where you can start to add power. Once you see that line through the corner, TAKE IT. Looking down just past the hood leads to bad lines and poor driving on the street or the track. But we all do it! Don't be afraid to look out your side windows! Front windshields are for drag races.

#2 Get your braking done earlier and you can probably brake less - often burying the car deep into the braking zone causes panic over-braking and too much speed loss (and needlessly heating the brakes up). You gain very little time by braking late, compared to coming out of the corner faster.

#3 Apply the brakes light-heavy-light. You can hold more weight on the nose that way, to improve turn-in at higher speed. And keep the suspension from bouncing around just as you need the car settled for a fast turn. As you learn to trail brake (if needed), you will adjust the amount of heavy braking.

#4 Learn to modulate the brake pedal by PRESSURE rather than TRAVEL. On the street, we move our leg and step on the brake. On track, where you brake so much heavier, you need to take advantage of the find adjustments that come from slightly adjusting the pedal pressure. Especially if you run with the nannies / ABS off!

#5 What @God-Speed said!

Rusty

It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. On the track. I hate the Spec Miata's. Pass them on the straights, only to have them pass you under braking and through the turn. I was taught to brake lightly. Easy on, easy off. Don't go jumping on the brake pedal. When you jump on the brakes.The nose goes down too quick, and the rear wants to lift. Upsetting the balance. And when you release the brakes. You don't want to just lift, come up slowly. When you lift quick. The front springs will want to bounce the front up too quickly. Then you are playing around with your dampening setting trying to find a compromise.

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"The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only"
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God-Speed

Enough Said!!!!

osbornsm

Previous Rides were all lower power than the Camaro.

So i started slow... see chart below.



It seems the way i make it around a road course is not conducive to brake longevity. :-\

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Rusty

Yeah, and each time you moved up in power. You increased weight.

__________________

浪人 - 殺し屋
"The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only"
http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

osbornsm

I'm happy with the power/weight ratio of the Camaro.
I am NOT happy with the weight/brake ratio.

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danegrey

all good information for me, since I had brake problems last year and it was more likely my style... good stuff to think about

__________________
Lots of Changes
the Z needs to be driven and driven hard for the car lives for it

Hotrodz

Kind of late to the party and want to echo all the advise given. I am not an experienced driver as those which have commented or as you are. That being said I have seen what you are experiencing first hand as my track partner has a 2014 1le Camaro and he has gone through brakes and rotors like mad. He brakes hard and deep squaring off his corners. He lays down some pretty good times, I was slightly faster before my long layoff lol. Before he added brake ducting his brake and rotor were consistently 400* warmer than mine. His brakes got so hot hot he turned the Brembo red paint to...well let's just say they were darker than me, LMAO. I have provided the same advise above to him and he had not really listened until recently because even though he is getting faster other with our same experience are getting even faster. We had a 7 or 8 time National Auto Cross champion show up (Brian Peters) with a 2018 ss Camaro and wiped everyone's *** in Time Trials and Time Attack. My buddy asked him about what I said and he told him exactly what has been stated here.

For what it worth I blew my engine and now I waiting for it to be rebuilt. I bought a Miata and it is a blast. It is also exposing my faults. My plan is not to go back to the Z until my race craft improves as suggested above. When I become fast in slow car...then it will be game on in the Z!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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ZCanadian

Brake cooling can be very effective. Or not. Depends on your track. It can also lead to less than optimum brake temperatures at the end of a long straight, but that's preferable to fade from overheating (and the corresponding damage to rotors and pads). Usually it helps a bit with aero too, as long as the ducted air goes out the side and doesn't get released under the car. But that's really hard to ascertain - even for racing teams with deep pockets.

Better pads (which you likely already have), and larger rotors / BBK can help as well, but those add unsprung weight.

Making the car lighter helps in every respect on the track. But makes the car less liveable if you use it as a daily driver.

Driving technique will always help - faster, larger radius corners mean less braking, less heat, less likelihood of fade, less consumption of pad material, and quicker lap times.

That 1LE is an amazing car. Especially for the money. But yeah, 3,750 lbs. Wow.

So, you gonna share pictures of your handiwork, or do we just have to imagine what your brake ducts look like??? I promise, no criticism on those from me. I'd like to see them though.

UNKNOWN_370

6 piston 1LE upgrade.

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Favorite Quote.
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