2020 Supra... first thoughts

Cyber370 · 02-13-2019, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I posted an article where BMW had to send every engine part to toyota to pass their reliability inspections. And no engine part went into the Supra without Toyota's approval.

I doubt that BMW would’ve changed anything if a component did not pass Toyota’s expected level of reliability. Why would they? As far as BMW is concerned, they build the best. Toyota is just a customer wanting a piece of their action. Not the other way around.

Zingston · 02-13-2019, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyber370

I doubt that BMW would’ve changed anything if a component did not pass Toyota’s expected level of reliability. Why would they? As far as BMW is concerned, they build the best. Toyota is just a customer wanting a piece of their action. Not the other way around.

True... but in this case Toyota is still the "customer". Also if BMW were a she, then Toyota would be wanting a piece of her action.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-13-2019, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyber370

I doubt that BMW would’ve changed anything if a component did not pass Toyota’s expected level of reliability. Why would they? As far as BMW is concerned, they build the best. Toyota is just a customer wanting a piece of their action. Not the other way around.

That's your personal doubt versus BMW and Toyota's statement. But as to why? Why wouldn't BMW try to improve its reputation for reliability since they've lost their ground as a benchmark from Cadillac and Alfa. Now they're saying Genesis is better. Reliability would be a great way for BMW to get back some of its fan base. People love Bimmers but feel safer in Infiniti, Cadillac etc... Due to they're more reliable and parts are cheaper. Also audi has been taking a huge share out of BMW because their reliability ratings have shot up since 2012 have been steadily increasing. So yeah... It pays for BMW to make more reliable engines.
And toyota never made an unreliable anything. Why would they start now?

Cyber370 · 02-13-2019, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

That's your personal doubt versus BMW and Toyota's statement. But as to why? Why wouldn't BMW try to improve its reputation for reliability since they've lost their ground as a benchmark from Cadillac and Alfa. Now they're saying Genesis is better. Reliability would be a great way for BMW to get back some of its fan base. People love Bimmers but feel safer in Infiniti, Cadillac etc... Due to they're more reliable and parts are cheaper. Also audi has been taking a huge share out of BMW because their reliability ratings have shot up since 2012 have been steadily increasing. So yeah... It pays for BMW to make more reliable engines.
And toyota never made an unreliable anything. Why would they start now?

Well, hope you’re right. Time will tell if the new Supra lives up to Toyota’s reliability goals. But, if I was a betting man.....

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RicerX · 02-13-2019, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I try to look at it like this... Let's say this Supra sets the world on fire? And sales go back to 80's or early 90's levels. 30,000 units annually. Toyota would have made enough money that the 2nd gen, we may have a 3jz?

Only took them 7 years to get this one out - by then teleportation technology will nuke the car market. But I will hope for your scenario instead.

Quote:

The thing about all those other cars you mentioned is they come from car companies that build semi exotics. And Chevy still enjoys sales numbers of over 10,000 units.

Not the point - they're still halo cars for their respective brands, engineered and mostly built solely by that brand.

Quote:

The fault isn't in Toyota. It's in all the pansies buying snoozemobiles. Glorifying electrified cars and crossovers and enthusiasts who DONT make the SACRIFICE of buying new.

Do not disagree at all here. I have owned three 370Zs myself, two of which were bought new, so I feel I'm entitled to the final sentiment there.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-13-2019, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

Not the point - they're still halo cars for their respective brands, engineered and mostly built solely by that brand.

But the fact still remains Benz makes 6 figures on cars the way Nissan makes 30k. Same with Audi. Same with BMW.

Nissan has one 6 figure car
Same with Acura.
The numbers are relevant my brutha.

ZCanadian · 02-14-2019, 01:32 PM

Yeah, but the point was that a "halo" car (a term which is used way too often, and might not even be intended to apply to Supra) should be a statement by the company that "this is the best of the best of what we do".
With this Mark Supra, Toyota would seem to be telling the world "The very best car that we can sell you right now is actually a BMW." Which is more than a bit embarrassing for them, really.

I guess we now know what Toyota wants to be when it grows up... a Bimmer!

FL 4Motion · 02-15-2019, 12:37 AM

Just watched a motorweek episode where they covered the North American international auto show and there was a nice vid of the Supra.

My initial reaction to this car when it was revealed was

followed by

not a Supra since it’s just a reskinned bimmer. Then I was lukewarm to it...

However, my thinking has evolved to the point where I’m going to flat out say I reallly like it and if I were in the market for a new sports car, this would be up there.

I’d pick this over another nismo z all day assuming the driving dynamics are on point, (a manual option would be nice but not a deal breaker for me since my knees etc are shot). Plus, zf 8spd autos are insanely good.

Let’s remember that most of the world knows the supras reputation thanks to f&f but most couldn’t tell you what motor was in it. Plus a whole lotta people will buy this if they want a sports car bc it looks cool and Toyota means reliable and if they’re educated enough to know about the BMW connection, they’ll just consider it a plus since bmw has a Luxo/sport premium German rep.

The fact that a new sub 100k sports car just got dropped in our collective lap is a plus in this environment. It MIGHT spur a z35, it might not, but having another choice is good.

This is going to be a good car I think. remember when the r35 came out? No inline 6, no manual, not a real gtr, I’ll never buy one etc. haven’t heard those ******** complaints since 2010. And yeah, I know at least Nissan didn’t have Audi build the drivetrain,(although if they had, the gtr would have been much better

), but economics are different now than pre Great Recession, all the auto makers are teaming up and sharing costs. We should get used to it. Hell Chevy and Ford share the same 10spd auto iirc, I’m sure camaro and mustang owners were thrilled about that.

DLSTR · 02-15-2019, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

Just watched a motorweek episode where they covered the North American international auto show and there was a nice vid of the Supra.

My initial reaction to this car when it was revealed was

followed by

not a Supra since it’s just a reskinned bimmer. Then I was lukewarm to it...

However, my thinking has evolved to the point where I’m going to flat out say I reallly like it and if I were in the market for a new sports car, this would be up there.

I’d pick this over another nismo z all day assuming the driving dynamics are on point, (a manual option would be nice but not a deal breaker for me since my knees etc are shot). Plus, zf 8spd autos are insanely good.

Let’s remember that most of the world knows the supras reputation thanks to f&f but most couldn’t tell you what motor was in it. Plus a whole lotta people will buy this if they want a sports car bc it looks cool and Toyota means reliable and if they’re educated enough to know about the BMW connection, they’ll just consider it a plus since bmw has a Luxo/sport premium German rep.

The fact that a new sub 100k sports car just got dropped in our collective lap is a plus in this environment. It MIGHT spur a z35, it might not, but having another choice is good.

This is going to be a good car I think. remember when the r35 came out? No inline 6, no manual, not a real gtr, I’ll never buy one etc. haven’t heard those ******** complaints since 2010. And yeah, I know at least Nissan didn’t have Audi build the drivetrain,(although if they had, the gtr would have been much better

), but economics are different now than pre Great Recession, all the auto makers are teaming up and sharing costs. We should get used to it. Hell Chevy and Ford share the same 10spd auto iirc, I’m sure camaro and mustang owners were thrilled about that.

Well said. To say the car is not this or that after not at all driving it is ridiculous. The total amount of resources to bring a car to market now is insane. Cost sharing and parts bin sharing is nothing new. Its a sportscar and Im betting most who talk as if the world might end here then test it will be impressed. Im happy to see a new sportscar on the market in a sea of shite boxes and trucks. Fk that.

Cyber370 · 02-15-2019, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLSTR

Well said. To say the car is not this or that after not at all driving it is ridiculous. The total amount of resources to bring a car to market now is insane. Cost sharing and parts bin sharing is nothing new. Its a sportscar and Im betting most who talk as if the world might end here then test it will be impressed. Im happy to see a new sportscar on the market in a sea of shite boxes and trucks. Fk that.

No one is doubting the car’s capabilities and I’m sure it drives amazingly well.

It just would’ve been nice if Toyota would’ve designed and built most of it. I mean this is Toyota, the giant car manufacturer who designed and built the LFA just for fun knowing fully well that it was a money losing project. It was just to show the world what they were capable of. And it was revolutionary.

Again, if I wanted a BMW, I’d buy a BMW not a rebadged one. Just saying.

PS: Here's something to think about - Toyota, until recently was the biggest car manufacturer in the world. They only recently became second to Volkswagen by an extremely small margin. The only reason Volkswagen is first is because it is a consortium of numerous car companies (Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, Seat, etc). For all intents and purposes, Toyota is still the biggest.

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UNKNOWN_370 · 02-25-2019, 08:26 PM

2JZ SWAP KIT IN THE WORKS

https://www-motor1-com.cdn.ampprojec...jz-swap-kit%2F

Rusty · 02-25-2019, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

2JZ SWAP KIT IN THE WORKS

https://www-motor1-com.cdn.ampprojec...jz-swap-kit%2F

That didn't take long.

Zingston · 02-25-2019, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

That didn't take long.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-26-2019, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

That didn't take long.

It'll probably be out around the cars release. But we aren't getting the 4 banger. So it will be a costly and possibly an unnecessary swap? The engine inspections done by Toyota on the BMW engines were in the name of both tuneability and reliability. If I were to do a 2jz swap? I'd want to buy the cheapest car with a sport pkg. The 4 banger?

1UPZ · 02-27-2019, 04:40 PM

My family has always been pro Toyota and I've been a Toyota guy as much as I am a Nissan guy. I've had Celica GT-Four and an MR2 GT in the past but also has had a GTR R32... Not all at the same time except my MR2 GT is in the garage trying to rebuild the engine... Sadly no time.

Anyways, I have a relative who works in Toyota office over here and can access 20% discount on this Supra hence I've been interested on it for a while... Until they announced that it's pretty much a Z4 hard top version.

Knowing what I know about Toyota engineering as I used to work for a supplier for Toyota as an engineer, the new Supra is pretty much a BMW with Toyota badging. Sure the suspension and gearing tune is by Toyota but the parts will be made and supplied by the same supplier for BMW. So build quality and parts quality is BMW... Take it for what it is.

Now when I found out no manual and 2 seater.... As well as being around 80K AUD, as I'm from Australia.... I lost interest... Even with the discount this car is too impractical for the money.... And if I'm buying an impractical car that is marketed as a sports car... I want it manual so... Go all out sporty or not at all.

Hence I decided on the Nismo 370Z... Mind you I liked the 300ZX back in the days and would love to rebuild a 240Z one day... But I was a Nissan guy due to the Skyline GT-R.

With the 370Z Nismo I was able to get it for a price that I though was reasonable and knowing that manual NA coupes... Especially from Japan... Are going to be non existent on the future. I thought this is one of the last cars I will have that opportunity with.

So value wise and the fact that it's old school in drive train and driving style wise... I thought the Nismo 370Z was ticked all the boxes... That and I could re-use my old GT-R and JDM car after market wheels as it's 5x114.3 PCD... I have a few spare staggered and square sets at my parents garage... I tend to keep them rather than sell.

Anyways...

If I was going to buy a sporty BMW... Which I won't... I would have purchased an M2... I know a couple of friends with M2s and they are not really car enthusiasts... But they love the status of driving a fast BMW... They are the ones that get new cars every 3 years when their novate lease expire and they move on... They don't spend time in the garage nor modifying their cars... Strictly but and drive then sell when the new model comes out... They also prefer auto... Basically non manuals..
And funnily they are the ones who are very keen on the new Supra. But one is actually about to put an order for the new Z4 instead because of the BMW badge.

Overall the next refresh of this car... Might have a manual option also. And that would pretty much kill used price for the Supra... As most Supra or JDM car fans I know are only keen on manuals...

I haven't driven the Supra but I might take one for a test drive but I'm pretty sure my next car is going to be an RCF or a Lexus LC500... Used... As I plan to keep my Nismo as a weekender and the automatic sporty cars as dailies... This is in 5 years or so lol

But I think the new Toyota Supra is stuck in limbo...
Sales wise I will pay attention to as it will drive the replacement in 5 years time. Meanwhile if they release an MR2 that is japanese made and assembled as well as having manual and turbo... I may get that instead and put it next to the Nismo.

02-14-2019, 01:32 PM	#202 (permalink)
ZCanadian A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Canada Posts: 1,058 Drives: 2013 370Z Rep Power: 60273	Yeah, but the point was that a "halo" car (a term which is used way too often, and might not even be intended to apply to Supra) should be a statement by the company that "this is the best of the best of what we do". With this Mark Supra, Toyota would seem to be telling the world "The very best car that we can sell you right now is actually a BMW." Which is more than a bit embarrassing for them, really. I guess we now know what Toyota wants to be when it grows up... a Bimmer! UNKNOWN_370, Spartan 1771 and RicerX like this.

02-15-2019, 12:37 AM	#203 (permalink)
FL 4Motion A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: FL Posts: 4,776 Drives: Baby Shark Rep Power: 701615	Just watched a motorweek episode where they covered the North American international auto show and there was a nice vid of the Supra. My initial reaction to this car when it was revealed was followed by not a Supra since it’s just a reskinned bimmer. Then I was lukewarm to it... However, my thinking has evolved to the point where I’m going to flat out say I reallly like it and if I were in the market for a new sports car, this would be up there. I’d pick this over another nismo z all day assuming the driving dynamics are on point, (a manual option would be nice but not a deal breaker for me since my knees etc are shot). Plus, zf 8spd autos are insanely good. Let’s remember that most of the world knows the supras reputation thanks to f&f but most couldn’t tell you what motor was in it. Plus a whole lotta people will buy this if they want a sports car bc it looks cool and Toyota means reliable and if they’re educated enough to know about the BMW connection, they’ll just consider it a plus since bmw has a Luxo/sport premium German rep. The fact that a new sub 100k sports car just got dropped in our collective lap is a plus in this environment. It MIGHT spur a z35, it might not, but having another choice is good. This is going to be a good car I think. remember when the r35 came out? No inline 6, no manual, not a real gtr, I’ll never buy one etc. haven’t heard those ******** complaints since 2010. And yeah, I know at least Nissan didn’t have Audi build the drivetrain,(although if they had, the gtr would have been much better ), but economics are different now than pre Great Recession, all the auto makers are teaming up and sharing costs. We should get used to it. Hell Chevy and Ford share the same 10spd auto iirc, I’m sure camaro and mustang owners were thrilled about that. DLSTR, BlackZeda, Rusty and 2 others like this.

02-25-2019, 08:26 PM	#206 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	2JZ SWAP KIT IN THE WORKS https://www-motor1-com.cdn.ampprojec...jz-swap-kit%2F __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

02-27-2019, 04:40 PM	#210 (permalink)
1UPZ Base Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Australia Posts: 3 Drives: 2017 Nismo 370Z MT Rep Power: 7	My family has always been pro Toyota and I've been a Toyota guy as much as I am a Nissan guy. I've had Celica GT-Four and an MR2 GT in the past but also has had a GTR R32... Not all at the same time except my MR2 GT is in the garage trying to rebuild the engine... Sadly no time. Anyways, I have a relative who works in Toyota office over here and can access 20% discount on this Supra hence I've been interested on it for a while... Until they announced that it's pretty much a Z4 hard top version. Knowing what I know about Toyota engineering as I used to work for a supplier for Toyota as an engineer, the new Supra is pretty much a BMW with Toyota badging. Sure the suspension and gearing tune is by Toyota but the parts will be made and supplied by the same supplier for BMW. So build quality and parts quality is BMW... Take it for what it is. Now when I found out no manual and 2 seater.... As well as being around 80K AUD, as I'm from Australia.... I lost interest... Even with the discount this car is too impractical for the money.... And if I'm buying an impractical car that is marketed as a sports car... I want it manual so... Go all out sporty or not at all. Hence I decided on the Nismo 370Z... Mind you I liked the 300ZX back in the days and would love to rebuild a 240Z one day... But I was a Nissan guy due to the Skyline GT-R. With the 370Z Nismo I was able to get it for a price that I though was reasonable and knowing that manual NA coupes... Especially from Japan... Are going to be non existent on the future. I thought this is one of the last cars I will have that opportunity with. So value wise and the fact that it's old school in drive train and driving style wise... I thought the Nismo 370Z was ticked all the boxes... That and I could re-use my old GT-R and JDM car after market wheels as it's 5x114.3 PCD... I have a few spare staggered and square sets at my parents garage... I tend to keep them rather than sell. Anyways... If I was going to buy a sporty BMW... Which I won't... I would have purchased an M2... I know a couple of friends with M2s and they are not really car enthusiasts... But they love the status of driving a fast BMW... They are the ones that get new cars every 3 years when their novate lease expire and they move on... They don't spend time in the garage nor modifying their cars... Strictly but and drive then sell when the new model comes out... They also prefer auto... Basically non manuals.. And funnily they are the ones who are very keen on the new Supra. But one is actually about to put an order for the new Z4 instead because of the BMW badge. Overall the next refresh of this car... Might have a manual option also. And that would pretty much kill used price for the Supra... As most Supra or JDM car fans I know are only keen on manuals... I haven't driven the Supra but I might take one for a test drive but I'm pretty sure my next car is going to be an RCF or a Lexus LC500... Used... As I plan to keep my Nismo as a weekender and the automatic sporty cars as dailies... This is in 5 years or so lol But I think the new Toyota Supra is stuck in limbo... Sales wise I will pay attention to as it will drive the replacement in 5 years time. Meanwhile if they release an MR2 that is japanese made and assembled as well as having manual and turbo... I may get that instead and put it next to the Nismo. sunkist350z and sunkist350z like this.

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