C8 mid-engine corvette. GM loves their people.

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-21-2019, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Hmmm, Mustang Dyno - invariably quite wrong, but typically comes in low.
Interesting.

It sounds like there is a lot of guesswork in going back up the drivetrain, though.

This is not a new engine for GM. They know every inch of it, and last I checked, they've been in the car business for quite a while - long enough to know what they are doing. I'm thinking that the manufacturer wouldn't under-state the actual HP figure by that much, so doubting that the test and report are really much more than click bait. But GM won't mind the extra attention, just the same!

We'll see? That's what they thought about the first Supra dyno. Then everyone and their grandma was pulling at least an extra 50hp. Time will tell.

Edit:

So I configured my Z51 C8... To the exact spec i would like. Its $92,800. Nearly 33,000 over MSRP. And i haven't loaded it yet. Let me see what i can do as bare bones.

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-22-2019, 10:17 AM

To have the cheapest but fulfilling corvette experience, I configured at $79,285.

So if you really think about it, the Supra being $53,000 doesnt make it a comparable car to the corvette. Equally featured there is a $26,000 difference. If you buy a base corvette you make a lot of functionality and appearance sacrifices. At that point, itll be best just to buy a black car to hide you're driving a featureless vette.

The corvette and supra does not compete in a sense. They're 2 stand alone sports cars that will be hard to cross shop. You can try to compare a Z and Supra but the Supra is league's ahead of the Z in performance.
Same with a Cayman to a vette. The cayman is non existent in power to a vette at this price. At this point, the Cayman needs to change its price identity to fit between a vette and a supra or really go up in power. One or the other.

In the end, though both these cars dont compete, the both changed the game in there price ranges. Somebody needs to change the game in the 86 range. It would be nice to see a TRUE 86 killer. Nissan coulda done it with the IDX concept, but you know... Nissan.

Zezus · 10-22-2019, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

We'll see? That's what they thought about the first Supra dyno. Then everyone and their grandma was pulling at least an extra 50hp. Time will tell.

Edit:

So I configured my Z51 C8... To the exact spec i would like. Its $92,800. Nearly 33,000 over MSRP. And i haven't loaded it yet. Let me see what i can do as bare bones.

If you check off every option you can get well over 100k in no time. I want to know what the next z06 is going to run.

280z/300zx · 10-22-2019, 05:04 PM

Yeah, you can easily load it up and get the price up but I built and ordered mine at a decent price of 66k. I ordered a 1LT Z51 with black mirrors/spoiler, yellow color option, yellow calipers. Honestly aside from gadgets and color options what does the 2LT and 3LT interior options offer that is really needed? The engine appearance package is pointless as aftermarket will undoubtedly have better and cheaper options. So I opted out, which was a huge consensus on the Vette boards. The lift feature is nice but the C8 rides higher than my current lowered Z06 and I get around okay. So I'm sure my C8 will be even easier to get around in. I'm sure for others the lift feature is a necessity. Wheels are a joke. Going to go aftermarket with that as well. Most on the Vette board found after the excitment wore off and things settled out that most of the options weren't needed/wanted. Most built a car in the mid 60's to low 70's.

Now while the supra at that point doesn't compete in price I will say that here on the west coast toyota is still marking them up. I have one dealer here in town wanting 82k for theirs and another dealer is asking 70k. While I like the supra, one thing I can personally think, is that in person it looks like the same class as a 370z, Camaro, Mustang. Meaning looking at it it doesn't look like a 50k car. It looks like it should carry a price tag closer to 40k. I also think price for performance this car should start about 10k lower than it does. The only way I would cancel my Vette order would be if the supra came with a manual. And then it would be an easy choice: base model supra with manual tranny. Because again, there is nothing on the options list aside from color that interest me.

I buy cars for the engine and suspension, not the gadgets. So understand thats where I'm coming from. I still enjoy driving my bare bones 280z with no a/c or heat. So again things like heat seats and garage link and memory seats and BS like that doesn't even register to me on a sports car.

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-22-2019, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 280z/300zx

Yeah, you can easily load it up and get the price up but I built and ordered mine at a decent price of 66k. I ordered a 1LT Z51 with black mirrors/spoiler, yellow color option, yellow calipers. Honestly aside from gadgets and color options what does the 2LT and 3LT interior options offer that is really needed? The engine appearance package is pointless as aftermarket will undoubtedly have better and cheaper options. So I opted out, which was a huge consensus on the Vette boards. The lift feature is nice but the C8 rides higher than my current lowered Z06 and I get around okay. So I'm sure my C8 will be even easier to get around in. I'm sure for others the lift feature is a necessity. Wheels are a joke. Going to go aftermarket with that as well. Most on the Vette board found after the excitment wore off and things settled out that most of the options weren't needed/wanted. Most built a car in the mid 60's to low 70's.

Now while the supra at that point doesn't compete in price I will say that here on the west coast toyota is still marking them up. I have one dealer here in town wanting 82k for theirs and another dealer is asking 70k. While I like the supra, one thing I can personally think, is that in person it looks like the same class as a 370z, Camaro, Mustang. Meaning looking at it it doesn't look like a 50k car. It looks like it should carry a price tag closer to 40k. I also think price for performance this car should start about 10k lower than it does. The only way I would cancel my Vette order would be if the supra came with a manual. And then it would be an easy choice: base model supra with manual tranny. Because again, there is nothing on the options list aside from color that interest me.

I buy cars for the engine and suspension, not the gadgets. So understand thats where I'm coming from. I still enjoy driving my bare bones 280z with no a/c or heat. So again things like heat seats and garage link and memory seats and BS like that doesn't even register to me on a sports car.

I did put the LT2 pkg and the lt 3 in both my configs. I have the same mindset as u when it comes to sports cars EXCEPT with these American sports cars. If you're buying them new? A base model tanks in depreciation way worse than a LT2 or 3 model. And if you pl azz n on shelling out 70k or better on a sports car... you might as well get your money out of it. Like say a camaro. A 1SS here in texas you can get for as low as $27k used. A 2SS will go around 33k to 35k. The spread widens from new to used... same with the vette. American cars in their base configuration look cheap. So without the extra crap people in the used market keep fishing. So making a corvette stand out from the rest is basically how u get top dollar. At least here in tx. This is s state where sports cars sell though. So you have to make the resale more appealing to get top dollar.

Unlike a 370z the used market stays tight. A base or base + sport only has a 1500 difference on the used market. Most people are willing to buy any used Z they can get their hands on. The abundance isnt there. And nismos sell about 7k more which is right in between a 1ss and 2ss in price.

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-22-2019, 08:13 PM

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/driv...he-real-world/

This article advocates for slow sports cars!!!
Phooey!!!

Rusty · 10-22-2019, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/driv...he-real-world/

This article advocates for slow sports cars!!!
Phooey!!!

Welcome to 1984.

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-22-2019, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Welcome to 1984.

Both my Z and Camaro felt very steerable. Todays modern transmissions help you get in the right gear and distribute the power very well. When I'm on the street and I'm having fun, I don't go past 4th or 5th gear. That's how my car stays fun. And my stock camaro corners better than my modded Z. But the Z's size inspires more confidence. So I'll call them even for the street. These cars arent 600hp but are stupid fast for what they are. For me600hp is overkill... but I am sure glad they exist and people buy them!! And I dont think it's out of touch to make them. I think car companies are out of touch in how to make them more appealing. Enthusiasts speak. The companies dont listen. That's the truth!!

So I dunno what

Rusty · 10-22-2019, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Both my Z and Camaro felt very steerable. Todays modern transmissions help you get in the right gear and distribute the power very well. When I'm on the street and I'm having fun, I don't go past 4th or 5th gear. That's how my car stays fun. And my stock camaro corners better than my modded Z. But the Z's size inspires more confidence. So I'll call them even for the street. These cars arent 600hp but are stupid fast for what they are. For me600hp is overkill... but I am sure glad they exist and people buy them!! And I dont think it's out of touch to make them. I think car companies are out of touch in how to make them more appealing. Enthusiasts speak. The companies dont listen. That's the truth!!

So I dunno what

I'm talking about Big Brother spying on you.

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-22-2019, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

I'm talking about Big Brother spying on you.

Lol... that too

CRiZO · 10-22-2019, 10:41 PM

I like "slow" sports cars. It's more fun to be able to drive a car than to have to baby the car everywhere. Or, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. I think the Z balances that line pretty well.

M iata
I s
A lways
T he
A nswer

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-23-2019, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRiZO

I like "slow" sports cars. It's more fun to be able to drive a car than to have to baby the car everywhere. Or, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. I think the Z balances that line pretty well.

M iata
I s
A lways
T he
A nswer

Wouldnt the M be better suited for MX 5 since you're already spelling out miatas?

ZCanadian · 10-23-2019, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRiZO

I like "slow" sports cars. It's more fun to be able to drive a car than to have to baby the car everywhere. Or, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. I think the Z balances that line pretty well.

M iata
I s
A lways
T he
A nswer

Having seen Miatas pass Caymans on track, I completely agree with your comments.

Driving a slow car fast is an accomplishment. Learning to do that is an education. Skills that you can transfer to more powerful vehicles as your career progresses

Driving a fast car fast is inevitable, and proves nothing about the capability of the driver. In fact, horsepower can do a lot to hide driver mistakes (it can also do a lot to cause small mistakes to become big crashes as countless YouTube videos will attest).

If you can wring everything out of Miata first, then you're going to be both safe and blisteringly fast in something with greater power (even despite its extra weight). Yeah, the Corvette, or Camaro, or GTR will blast down the straight way quicker, but "straights are for fast cars, corners are for fast drivers", and a (good, like the MX5) lightweight sports car with someone capable behind the wheel, can typically make up tons of time in the corners. So, it all depends on the track. If you spend time on the Nurburgring, forget it. My home track, OTOH, is a perfect example of one where low horsepower cars well driven can equal some much more powerful metal.

It's also more fun to go through all of the gears on the street (typical of a "slow car"), than to be limited to third or lower by speeds and traffic even on the highway. I have friends with 458's and MacLarens who cannot legally ever get above 3rd gear!

The fact that Rob Wilson has used a Vauxall Astra for years to teach more than half of the drivers on the Formula 1 grid how to go faster, is all the proof that I need to confirm this thesis!

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-23-2019, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Having seen Miatas pass Caymans on track, I completely agree with your comments.

Driving a slow car fast is an accomplishment. Learning to do that is an education. Skills that you can transfer to more powerful vehicles as your career progresses

Driving a fast car fast is inevitable, and proves nothing about the capability of the driver. In fact, horsepower can do a lot to hide driver mistakes (it can also do a lot to cause small mistakes to become big crashes as countless YouTube videos will attest).

If you can wring everything out of Miata first, then you're going to be both safe and blisteringly fast in something with greater power (even despite its extra weight). Yeah, the Corvette, or Camaro, or GTR will blast down the straight way quicker, but "straights are for fast cars, corners are for fast drivers", and a (good, like the MX5) lightweight sports car with someone capable behind the wheel, can typically make up tons of time in the corners. So, it all depends on the track. If you spend time on the Nurburgring, forget it. My home track, OTOH, is a perfect example of one where low horsepower cars well driven can equal some much more powerful metal.

It's also more fun to go through all of the gears on the street (typical of a "slow car"), than to be limited to third or lower by speeds and traffic even on the highway. I have friends with 458's and MacLarens who cannot legally ever get above 3rd gear!

The fact that Rob Williams has used a Vauxall Astra for years to teach more than half of the drivers on the Formula 1 grid how to go faster, is all the proof that I need to confirm this thesis!

Real drivers can make anything turn a corner hard and fast. Most people dont like the camaro cuz though it has high g's, its limited view and ultra wide body hamper your confidence.
In my case, when I felt I was dealing with a superior platform. I decided to overcome my own perceived limitations and master its size. Driving my little Z had no real effort for me to drive it hard. I fixed that with the suspension setup and my skills took over.

My camaro, it took two flat tires replacing my right front rim and cracking my underbody shield to confidently hit corners and realize where my right front end was in really tight angles where a car that size shouldnt be.

But since I can feel that suspension is so great I can make that car do little car acrobatics. I learned my cars geometry with hard lessons on a complex track n dead roads But I'm rewarded for it.

The game, is the game. Pick the tool thats best FOR YOU you need to play it. Being the best is just pushing yourself to be that and making the adjustments you have to take to make yourself a better driver! If miata's make you feel like you will be a better driver? Do it!!
But theres more than one way to skin a cat.
Ricky Bobby did it with a cougar in his backseat.

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-23-2019, 08:03 PM

https://www.motor1.com/news/378121/2...est-exclusive/

Analysis as to why MT's dyno is wrong .
Makes sense... but I do know the current gen engines are underrated by about 24hp on average. So I wouldnt be surprised if the vette has more power, though these numbers seem high.

Edit: I am inaccurate a little.

The automatics underrated average is about 16hp, the manuals are higher to about 24hp.

10-22-2019, 10:17 AM	#347 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	To have the cheapest but fulfilling corvette experience, I configured at $79,285. So if you really think about it, the Supra being $53,000 doesnt make it a comparable car to the corvette. Equally featured there is a $26,000 difference. If you buy a base corvette you make a lot of functionality and appearance sacrifices. At that point, itll be best just to buy a black car to hide you're driving a featureless vette. The corvette and supra does not compete in a sense. They're 2 stand alone sports cars that will be hard to cross shop. You can try to compare a Z and Supra but the Supra is league's ahead of the Z in performance. Same with a Cayman to a vette. The cayman is non existent in power to a vette at this price. At this point, the Cayman needs to change its price identity to fit between a vette and a supra or really go up in power. One or the other. In the end, though both these cars dont compete, the both changed the game in there price ranges. Somebody needs to change the game in the 86 range. It would be nice to see a TRUE 86 killer. Nissan coulda done it with the IDX concept, but you know... Nissan. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980 Last edited by UNKNOWN_370; 10-22-2019 at 10:21 AM.

10-22-2019, 05:04 PM	#349 (permalink)
280z/300zx Track Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 689 Drives: 280z, 300zx, Vette Rep Power: 272	Yeah, you can easily load it up and get the price up but I built and ordered mine at a decent price of 66k. I ordered a 1LT Z51 with black mirrors/spoiler, yellow color option, yellow calipers. Honestly aside from gadgets and color options what does the 2LT and 3LT interior options offer that is really needed? The engine appearance package is pointless as aftermarket will undoubtedly have better and cheaper options. So I opted out, which was a huge consensus on the Vette boards. The lift feature is nice but the C8 rides higher than my current lowered Z06 and I get around okay. So I'm sure my C8 will be even easier to get around in. I'm sure for others the lift feature is a necessity. Wheels are a joke. Going to go aftermarket with that as well. Most on the Vette board found after the excitment wore off and things settled out that most of the options weren't needed/wanted. Most built a car in the mid 60's to low 70's. Now while the supra at that point doesn't compete in price I will say that here on the west coast toyota is still marking them up. I have one dealer here in town wanting 82k for theirs and another dealer is asking 70k. While I like the supra, one thing I can personally think, is that in person it looks like the same class as a 370z, Camaro, Mustang. Meaning looking at it it doesn't look like a 50k car. It looks like it should carry a price tag closer to 40k. I also think price for performance this car should start about 10k lower than it does. The only way I would cancel my Vette order would be if the supra came with a manual. And then it would be an easy choice: base model supra with manual tranny. Because again, there is nothing on the options list aside from color that interest me. I buy cars for the engine and suspension, not the gadgets. So understand thats where I'm coming from. I still enjoy driving my bare bones 280z with no a/c or heat. So again things like heat seats and garage link and memory seats and BS like that doesn't even register to me on a sports car. UNKNOWN_370, Rusty and ZCanadian like this. __________________ 77 280z, 82 280zx, 84 300zx, 2021 C8 Z51 09 370z sport/touring -RIP// 10 370z NISMO - sold

10-22-2019, 08:13 PM	#351 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	Big bother spying on my phone and this popped up. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/driv...he-real-world/ This article advocates for slow sports cars!!! Phooey!!! __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

10-22-2019, 10:41 PM	#356 (permalink)
CRiZO Track Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Dallas Posts: 672 Drives: in traffic Rep Power: 20698	I like "slow" sports cars. It's more fun to be able to drive a car than to have to baby the car everywhere. Or, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. I think the Z balances that line pretty well. M iata I s A lways T he A nswer Hotrodz and ZCanadian like this.

10-23-2019, 08:03 PM	#360 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	https://www.motor1.com/news/378121/2...est-exclusive/ Analysis as to why MT's dyno is wrong . Makes sense... but I do know the current gen engines are underrated by about 24hp on average. So I wouldnt be surprised if the vette has more power, though these numbers seem high. Edit: I am inaccurate a little. The automatics underrated average is about 16hp, the manuals are higher to about 24hp. Rusty and ZCanadian like this. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980 Last edited by UNKNOWN_370; 10-23-2019 at 08:32 PM.

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