The simplest reason why we wont get a Z.

Zingston · 01-18-2018, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

The first recharging station I seen was at Hershey Park 2 years ago. One local outlet mall just installed about a dozen of them. The problem is. Where they put them at. Was where the handicap used to park. And guess what. The handicap are still parking in those spots. If you have to recharge. It's not going to happen.

That's hilarious!!!!

Zoren 370 · 01-18-2018, 08:55 PM

The simplest reason why where not getting a Z is because its the last letter of the alphabet?

UNKNOWN_370 · 01-19-2018, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

I'm gonna be sick.

You can say that again bruh.

sunkist350z · 01-30-2018, 01:15 AM

From this article looks like the next gen z is in the works.

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/01/ni...nning-officer/

Rusty · 01-30-2018, 09:46 AM

This is the same article as in the other thread.

Chuck33079 · 01-30-2018, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

So enthusiasts mean nothing right now. We are considered dinosaurs. Our market is irrelevant.

Yes. This isn't news. The enthusiast market is completely irrelevant from a profitability standpoint, because they don't buy cars in an amount large enough to move the needle. I'm still shocked that people expect a new z. Why? No one bought the Z34 in any meaningful numbers. Even if we get a new Z, there won't magically be 50k+ people who suddenly decide that a small two-seater makes sense. You're not getting a big share of the Vette market, and few people are cross shopping a Z with a 911.

So what's the play for the Z35 - move upmarket with more power, and hope that people buy a $50k+ Z, or move it downmarket and try to steal buyers from the rapidly shrinking GT86/BRZ market? It's a dead end, and I'm shocked they haven't just put a bullet in the Z34 and moved on. Killing it for 5-10 years would be a smart move, since that way they could at least build up enough demand to have a big first and second year pop like the 350 had.

ZCanadian · 01-30-2018, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Yes. This isn't news. The enthusiast market is completely irrelevant from a profitability standpoint, because they don't buy cars in an amount large enough to move the needle. I'm still shocked that people expect a new z. Why? No one bought the Z34 in any meaningful numbers. Even if we get a new Z, there won't magically be 50k+ people who suddenly decide that a small two-seater makes sense. You're not getting a big share of the Vette market, and few people are cross shopping a Z with a 911.

So what's the play for the Z35 - move upmarket with more power, and hope that people buy a $50k+ Z, or move it downmarket and try to steal buyers from the rapidly shrinking GT86/BRZ market? It's a dead end, and I'm shocked they haven't just put a bullet in the Z34 and moved on. Killing it for 5-10 years would be a smart move, since that way they could at least build up enough demand to have a big first and second year pop like the 350 had.

Debbie Downer. But right on all counts.

Problem with enthusiast buyers isn't that we're, um, "enthusiastic" about the product. It's that we tend to buy and hold it. Nissan would far prefer you buy a new Altima every three years, over still owning a 2010 Z in 2018. But we tend to not put miles on these cars (half of the continent finds it hard to do in the winter months, anyway), and invest heavily in aftermarket goodies which are not conducive to selling or trading (or removing). So, despite there being a lot of us still out there, we don't represent a lot of yearly sales.

Of course, the bad news does rely on the notion that a new generation Z would fall into the same price, practicality, and performance category as the current model. In which case, it's doomed for financial failure off the mark. The Z34 works as the elderstatesman in the market of Toyota 86 / Miata / Fiat 124 / and a few hot hatches. Prettier lines than most, but far less practical than many and is losing the performance war every year. An engine transplant might have done it a few years ago, but by now the platform is so long in the tooth that such a move would be slaughtered by the automotive press. They know nothing, but buyers still read their drivel.

So, it might be better to re-invent the car the way the Corvette or higher end Camaro's have done to pull closer to the Cayman / F-Type benchmark for performance, slap an Infinity badge on it for brand cachet, and sell it at a considerable premium over the present model.

But then, we'll hear moaning and groaning from the "purists" on this board that Nissan left them out in the cold with the new car...

Truthfully, Nissan cannot win this one for trying. Which is likely whey they aren't.
That, and the fact that each Z34 that they move contributes to the bottom line. All development costs have long been covered.

Rusty · 01-30-2018, 02:45 PM

All Nissan would have to do is. Give it a body style something like the F-Type/ C6. Tweak the chassis a little. It's already a good chassis. Update the the drivetrain. Update the interior.

UNKNOWN_370 · 01-31-2018, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Yes. This isn't news. The enthusiast market is completely irrelevant from a profitability standpoint, because they don't buy cars in an amount large enough to move the needle. I'm still shocked that people expect a new z. Why? No one bought the Z34 in any meaningful numbers. Even if we get a new Z, there won't magically be 50k+ people who suddenly decide that a small two-seater makes sense. You're not getting a big share of the Vette market, and few people are cross shopping a Z with a 911.

So what's the play for the Z35 - move upmarket with more power, and hope that people buy a $50k+ Z, or move it downmarket and try to steal buyers from the rapidly shrinking GT86/BRZ market? It's a dead end, and I'm shocked they haven't just put a bullet in the Z34 and moved on. Killing it for 5-10 years would be a smart move, since that way they could at least build up enough demand to have a big first and second year pop like the 350 had.

Just remember what the product planner said though. Which is a point I been stressing since 2012 and people have tried to debate it on here with me. And now the productt planner said it. So he ha.... Paraphrasing he said.

They understand the relevance of Z heritage, it's not about the actual sales numbers as much as it is about what the car means for the brand.

The Halo car is named the halo, because all of the regular cars should have a model that it's suspension and transmission tuning is inspired by the sports car. In our brand, that model designation is SR. when you buy an SR model. You are that guy that wishes he could own a Z. Maybe only 5% of SR owners actually make their dream come true? But 150,000 SR models could be sold across the range based on the Z existing alone.

So Nissan is finally realizing this and sending out their wayward lackey message of hope to the media.

Chuck33079 · 01-31-2018, 01:05 PM

But the Z is in no way the Halo car for Nissan. I'd argue it never was after the first Skyline rolled off the line. In fact, it's likely that the new Z (if one ever exists) will be neutered so it doesn't compete too much with the GTR. It's the same reason Porsche will never have the regular Cayman keep up with the base 911.

We all understand your feelings on the electric part, but it's just the way things are going. As long as major manufacturers get obscene tax benefits for making EVs, and CAFE regs push them to focus on EVs so they can continue to make trucks and SUVs, nothing is going to change.

Look, we all want there to be a new Z. But people don't matter to car companies. Shareholders matter, and they expect a return on investment. The market has turned, and analog "old school" sports cars do not make a company money unless they can amortize it down by selling a lower trim model like a V6 Mustang. Unless Nissan has a plan for a base Z with a NA 4 cylinder it can sell to coeds and hairdressers, a proper Z is a hard sell to the bean counters. Even if the new CEO turns out to be the biggest enthusiast in history, unless the shareholders make money he'll be thrown out on his ***. Companies that cater to the enthusiasts and do not have mainstream success end up like Lotus and TVR.

Personally, I'd rather that they kill the Z completely rather than making one that's a disgrace to the name.

sunkist350z · 02-01-2018, 07:00 PM

From this article at least we will see a z concept lol

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/02/ni...unced-chicago/

ZCanadian · 02-01-2018, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunkist350z

From this article at least we will see a z concept lol

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/02/ni...unced-chicago/

Yeah, what is it with Nissan, dressing up existing models in bizarre themes, instread of developing viable new product?

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-02-2018, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

But the Z is in no way the Halo car for Nissan. I'd argue it never was after the first Skyline rolled off the line. In fact, it's likely that the new Z (if one ever exists) will be neutered so it doesn't compete too much with the GTR. It's the same reason Porsche will never have the regular Cayman keep up with the base 911.

We all understand your feelings on the electric part, but it's just the way things are going. As long as major manufacturers get obscene tax benefits for making EVs, and CAFE regs push them to focus on EVs so they can continue to make trucks and SUVs, nothing is going to change.

Look, we all want there to be a new Z. But people don't matter to car companies. Shareholders matter, and they expect a return on investment. The market has turned, and analog "old school" sports cars do not make a company money unless they can amortize it down by selling a lower trim model like a V6 Mustang. Unless Nissan has a plan for a base Z with a NA 4 cylinder it can sell to coeds and hairdressers, a proper Z is a hard sell to the bean counters. Even if the new CEO turns out to be the biggest enthusiast in history, unless the shareholders make money he'll be thrown out on his ***. Companies that cater to the enthusiasts and do not have mainstream success end up like Lotus and TVR.

Personally, I'd rather that they kill the Z completely rather than making one that's a disgrace to the name.

I know I'm that guy everyone wants to disagree with. But it makes no sense to contradict the Nissan product planner.
like I said. Nissan product planner already stated the Z means something in the way of inspiring sales throughout the brand.
So it's like you're defeating my point with your opinion and superseding Nissan's opinion that the car brings attention to the brand... Isn't that a halo car? A car that brings attention to the brand?

The GTR is a halo, but not in the same way as a Z. The Z is that car anyone can strive to purchase new. Where a GTR is just an ego car that serves a different aspect of the Halo group. The skyline couldn't even be a halo in the US as it spent 45 years a legend in Japan before they dropped the skyline name on the GTR n brought it here.

And Porsche did outdo the base 911 with the GT4.

If they even said that it proves they're getting nervous about the bad press surrounding the Z. They're probably starting to feel a minor backlash surrounding the Z and are trying to save themselves with weak press.

All the rest I agree. Car companies stopped caring in the 90's. They corrupted their own market by not being competitive in key moments and followed trends instead of setting them.

JARblue · 02-02-2018, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I know I'm that guy everyone wants to disagree with.

Wrong again

Chuck33079 · 02-02-2018, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I know I'm that guy everyone wants to disagree with. But it makes no sense to contradict the Nissan product planner.
like I said. Nissan product planner already stated the Z means something in the way of inspiring sales throughout the brand.
So it's like you're defeating my point with your opinion and superseding Nissan's opinion that the car brings attention to the brand... Isn't that a halo car? A car that brings attention to the brand?

The GTR is a halo, but not in the same way as a Z. The Z is that car anyone can strive to purchase new. Where a GTR is just an ego car that serves a different aspect of the Halo group. The skyline couldn't even be a halo in the US as it spent 45 years a legend in Japan before they dropped the skyline name on the GTR n brought it here.

And Porsche did outdo the base 911 with the GT4.

If they even said that it proves they're getting nervous about the bad press surrounding the Z. They're probably starting to feel a minor backlash surrounding the Z and are trying to save themselves with weak press.

All the rest I agree. Car companies stopped caring in the 90's. They corrupted their own market by not being competitive in key moments and followed trends instead of setting them.

How many times has someone high up at Nissan came out and told us that the new Z is coming, that they haven't forgotten us, and that they've got a concept coming at one of the major auto shows? How many times has that actually been the case? Until they actually come to the table with more than talk, why should we believe them?

01-30-2018, 02:45 PM	#23 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,184 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684437	All Nissan would have to do is. Give it a body style something like the F-Type/ C6. Tweak the chassis a little. It's already a good chassis. Update the the drivetrain. Update the interior. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

01-31-2018, 01:05 PM	#25 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	But the Z is in no way the Halo car for Nissan. I'd argue it never was after the first Skyline rolled off the line. In fact, it's likely that the new Z (if one ever exists) will be neutered so it doesn't compete too much with the GTR. It's the same reason Porsche will never have the regular Cayman keep up with the base 911. We all understand your feelings on the electric part, but it's just the way things are going. As long as major manufacturers get obscene tax benefits for making EVs, and CAFE regs push them to focus on EVs so they can continue to make trucks and SUVs, nothing is going to change. Look, we all want there to be a new Z. But people don't matter to car companies. Shareholders matter, and they expect a return on investment. The market has turned, and analog "old school" sports cars do not make a company money unless they can amortize it down by selling a lower trim model like a V6 Mustang. Unless Nissan has a plan for a base Z with a NA 4 cylinder it can sell to coeds and hairdressers, a proper Z is a hard sell to the bean counters. Even if the new CEO turns out to be the biggest enthusiast in history, unless the shareholders make money he'll be thrown out on his ***. Companies that cater to the enthusiasts and do not have mainstream success end up like Lotus and TVR. Personally, I'd rather that they kill the Z completely rather than making one that's a disgrace to the name. Rusty, old guy, ZCanadian and 1 others like this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

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01-18-2018, 08:55 PM	#17 (permalink)
Zoren 370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: FL Posts: 11,018 Drives: 11 Nissan 370 M6 Rep Power: 1913653	The simplest reason why where not getting a Z is because its the last letter of the alphabet?

01-30-2018, 01:15 AM	#19 (permalink)
sunkist350z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Z-land Posts: 1,009 Drives: 2012 370z sport 6-sp Rep Power: 55341	From this article looks like the next gen z is in the works. https://www.carscoops.com/2018/01/ni...nning-officer/

02-01-2018, 07:00 PM	#26 (permalink)
sunkist350z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Z-land Posts: 1,009 Drives: 2012 370z sport 6-sp Rep Power: 55341	From this article at least we will see a z concept lol https://www.carscoops.com/2018/02/ni...unced-chicago/