so? put money into the z and it would still be faster than the mustang.mustangs do not handle well. they're not made to handle well. and why are they bang for the buck? you used to get a pos car wrapped around two pos underpowerd engines. now for 2011 you get a pos car wrapped around somewhat decent engines. basically, you're paying tens of thousands of dollars for an engine :rolleyes:

no problem though, with attitudes like those of the above comments, ford knows it can keep offering the solid axle mustang well into the 22nd century and people will still buy it.:rofl2::bowrofl:

that isnt the correct mustang, the mustang 5.0 hasnt had a final release of specs so they really havent made any bulletproof comparisons..

So...what if the Mustang turned a faster lap time than the 370Z at a price less than, Pharmacist?

Old technology or not, >400 ponies is a good chunk of power, and you're doing nothing but being elitist/ignorant to any car that doesn't have an IRS. Just because you don't like the Mustang doesn't mean that legions of other people should. By virtue of viewing the 370 like you view the Mustang, the 370 is a pig (almost 3400 lbs - slightly less than my old 4th Gen Camaro) of a 2-seater sports car that should weigh less and be smaller considering it has NO utility at all.

Ford has proven that it can make a solid selling car out of the Mustang, and just because you're jealous that Ford can sell them like hot cakes shows. The VAST majority of people who buy them are going to do nothing but daily drive them anyway, so what do they care if the car has an IRS or a live axle? For that matter, wheres YOUR track credentials? You talk a lot of smack for someone who I don't recall posting any auto-x or track stories...

ive always loved the muscle and imports, i love the muscle vs imports fights even more.

the fact of the matter is..the mustang weighs waaaaaaay less than those other muscle cars, and produces just as much HP.. i give ford props for making a strong car like that, cuz for many years ive seen nothing but chicks driving those mustangs, not that its a bad thing, but it started to lose its muscle car title

If the General would have made the new Camaro 300-400 lbs less, I'd be a Camaro owner right now.

so much nonsene in your post. first of all, a stock mustang would NEVER defeat a 370z on a track actually oriented towards handling and cornering ability.

there you go again with the typical american mentality. you make it seem like a car is no more than the sum of its horsepower. 400 hp big deal. you can get a turbo 4 banger evo X with minimal mods to make that much power, of course it also has excellent handling to go with it.

yeah, i guess all those other automakers that abandoned solid axles in favor of irs were all motivated by ignorance and elitism :inoutroflpuke:

and weight-wise, the 370z may not be light but it's not very heavy either compared to other cars of similar size. heck the aston one 77 with all its fancy carbon fibre body i think is only 100 lbs less than the z.

yeah, ford is able to sell lots of mustangs, so what? dodge also made a successful selling car out of the caravan, and toyota sells tens of thousands of corollas. what's your point? Meanwhile, mclaren had a tough time selling the f1. what is your point?

and yeah, the majority of ferrari and lambo owners never track their cars and only drive them on the street to show off. so what? should ferrari cut costs by downgrading the 458 italia back to solid axle, front engine, 5 sp manual, sliding one piston calipers, etc.....

and what do my track credentials have any relevance? this is a topic about the mustang, not my driving abilities. focus on topic

You underestimate the ability for a car that has a LOT of power to be able to pick up a lot of time on long straights, and you also underestimate the abilities of competent drivers to do what you perceive as unimaginable with a car. Case in point, Sabine at the Nurburgring, racing that silly delivery truck at times that'd blow your mind. I'd link the Youtube video, but sadly, Im at work.

You're misunderstanding my common sense with your so-called American mentality. I can understand and accept the fact that a car with enough power but less handling can POTENTIALLY beat a car on a track that has less power but better handling. I can ALSO accept the fact that spec Miatas with **** for power can smoke higher powered cars on a track. Many times, it just depends on the driver. And that is the part of the equation you are forgetting here. Furthermore, you're also forgetting the fact that the vast majority of people who purchase either of these cars has any track experience, and your amazing handling means precisely squat on the roads for the most part, minus zipping and zooming through traffic, and doing other illegal maneuvers.

Im not stating that anyone should cut costs or whatever, Im merely stating that Ford has found a method that works for them in building and selling the Mustang. To many, its a very attractive car, and reasonably priced at that. It has plenty of power for stoplight-to-stoplight racing, and given the right sticky rubber with some decent pads, I bet it wouldn't do half bad at the track. Sure, not quite as hot as if it'd have an IRS, but who cares as long as the driver is having fun?

Your driving repertoire has all the relevance in the world here - you're so quick to thumb your nose about the "ancient" technology here, what makes YOU the guy everyone should listen to about these dinosaurs on wheels? Have you driven one on the track and found it so terrifying you couldn't stand it anymore, and needed something with an IRS?

We should just forget about it. This is a 370Z forum so naturally there will be a lot of domestic hate. It just so happens that Pharmacist falls under the "moronic domestic hate" category.

It goes the same way on the Mustang boards... Only a handful of guys there are willing to recognize the capabilities of the 370.

The car guys here appreciate just about every car and know that the Mustang is a formidable track and strip car. The 2010 GT with Track Pack (i.e. Sport Package) is a formidable base for a track car -- .94 G on relatively skinny tires, 70 mph slalom... it's a very good car. Obviously it's not as track oriented as the smaller, 2-seat 370, but in the right hands I am absolutely positive a 2010 GT could school some bench racing, trash talking 370 driver on any track.

I'm sure the more technically oriented guys here will agree that this board has its share of bench racers and trash talkers who couldn't drive a 6MT to a 14 second quarter mile time if their lives depended on it.

The live axle argument is old and tired.

You obviously don't see the reason for keeping it so it's probably not worth explaining it to you, but against better judgment I will make an attempt anyways:

The majority of Mustang enthusiasts like to drag race their cars.

It's that simple. If enthusiast owners predominately preferred to track their cars, it would have an IRS.

Yeah, I know m4a1 - I read the reviews and just about every one of them rang the same tune: "For having a live axle, you aren't going to find a better handling car" was the general statement.

Like I said, I'm a Chevy guy, but kudos to Ford for making what looks to be a very solid entry here for 2011.

Unfortunately, I'm too damn stubborn to let the bench racers rule the world, and I shall continue to fight the good fight.

I am just a car enthusiast in general... I have no brand allegiances. And likewise, I am too stubborn to back away from the bench racing drivel. I always have to jump in and at least make it known that their words are nothing more than hate of a certain brand thinly veiled by their misinterpretation of their own understanding of how anything actually works.

:stirthepot:

I have been waiting for this for a long, long time. I might have to check out down the line.

People seriously need to stop bashing the live axle. I tracked my S197 Mustang, and I had nothing short of an excellent experience with it.

Yes, high power might help play catch up on the straights and may help keep up with weaker but better handling cars. But tighter more technical tracks may negate this advantage. Regardless, taking corners is more fun, and requires better engineering and driving skill than simply going fast in a straight line.

Again, if it was all about a car meeting daily driver needs and nothing more, then no car would come with more than 250 hp, no car would have a top speed greater than 120 km/h, no car would come with high performance summer tires, or big brakes and calipers. In fact, we'd all be driving minivans and crossover suv.


And where does this drivel about mustangs being a good bang for the buck come from? Over here, the 2010 gt mustang with the v8 4.6 engine that makes a measly 315 hp, FIVE speed manual, and the optional track package has msrp of about 41000. The 370z touring with about 15 hp more out of a v6 with almost 1 litre less displacement, SIX speed manual with SRM, independent suspension, and the sport package has an MSRP of 45500. Hardly a bargain considering the z is faster, better quality, better fit and finish, better reliability, better image, and better resale value.

Car making should be about innovation, about new technology. That's why they have engineers, and an R and D budget. Their objective should be coming up with something new, refreshing and updating their product, and push themselves to their limits, not just recycling stale outdated products just because people keep buying them. Look at nissan, they created innovative new technology with the vvel, synchrorev, and in the future possibly direct injection. did they have to do that? no. would people buy nissans if they didn't? for sure.

Speaking of innovation, i heard that nascar has recently taken a very bold and innovative step and will begin experimenting with fuel injection :rofl2::bowrofl:

Correct.
And as I was told, Ford even asked Mustang owners, projected buyers, etc. right before the 2005 new body style came our on what they wanted, IRS or solid rear axle? Guess which one won?

While I am a huge fan or IRS and do agree that the solid rear axle is a dated technology, and probably would own a Mustang if it had IRS. The fact still remains that Ford has taken this dated technology and made it work great in the real world. You had the track package, which is a factory addition, and the Mustang can take corners very well against cars with IRS. Given it has the horsepower and torque to back it up, it becomes a very heavy track contender.

Also, guess what car won GT1 this year at the SCCA National Championship? Ford Mustang