Bmw claims. Manuals and Dual clutch will be phased out...

ZCanadian · 08-04-2017, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLSTR

As stated by Maurizio Reggiani, Director of Research and Development at Lamborghini--Its about power and control. Your leg wont do it and you cant control or use the power efficiently--

Lamborghinis are supposed to be about raw emotion: the scream of a V12 engine, the thrill of mile-wide tires scrambling for grip, the joy of driving something built without a single care thrown toward convenience, practicality, or the rigors of everyday humdrum life.

Lamborghini R&D Chief Says Stick Shifts Are Dead

You'd think a manual transmission would fit the formula perfectly.

But at the Frankfurt Auto Show last week, R&T sat down with Maurizio Reggiani, Director of Research and Development at Lamborghini. And while the Lamborghini news at the show was the introduction of the Huracán LP 610-4 Spyder, we couldn't help asking Mr. Reggiani a question that's been weighing on our minds: Is the dream of a manual-transmission Lamborghini dead?

"Unfortunately I must say yes," he told us. "All the systems that are integrated in the car need to have a dialog with one another. The clutch is one of the fuses of the system, whether you're engaging or disengaging the torque. This creates a hole in the communication between what the engine is able to provide and how the car reacts to the power of the engine. For this reason, unfortunately, I must say I am sure that in a premium supersports car like the Huracán, we will only do a semiautomatic.

"Unfortunately, it's the demand of the control of the chassis," he continued. "If you want to control the chassis, you must control the power. If you want to control the power, the clutch must be under the control of the brain of the car, not your brain."

This decision wasn't easy, and Mr. Reggiani understands the yearning among traditionalists for a three-pedal Lamborghini. But he brings up a very good point about modern manual transmissions, one that doesn't get discussed very often among three-pedal evangelists: Today's manual transmissions aren't the pure, directly-connected driver's experience you think they are.

It all comes down to the mechanics of what happens when you push the clutch pedal. "Remember, when you put a servo system between your feet and the clutch, you have already put a filter in there. For me, the most pure expression of the manual transmission is when with your foot you push all the load that is necessary to disengage the clutch."

So when people pining for manual transmissions hold up today's three-pedal sports cars as standard bearers of purity, it puzzles Mr. Reggiani. "In all the latest manual transmissions, there is a servo that reduces the load [of the clutch pedal]," he explains. "If we want to talk about the purist [experience], we must go back 20 years, not 10 years, because already these filters were in place.

Then there's the practical side. "I've been working for Lamborghini for 20 years. I started at the time of the Diablo, [which had] a clutch without a servo. You needed 40 kilograms of force to disengage the clutch. At that time, we were making 450 N m of torque. Now we are at 690. It's a problem to manage the closing point of the clutch. If you have hesitation, with this torque you'll burn the clutch immediately.

"And unfortunately not everybody can be a super expert, but everybody wants to buy the car and nobody wants to appear stupid. For this, you must put the servo in there, and if you put the servo in there you disengage the really mechanical feeling between you and the engine."

In other words, if you want a Lamborghini with power like the 740-hp Aventador LP750-4 SV, you're gonna have to settle for a transmission that's smarter than you. As for Mr. Reggiani? When he wants to get that purist mechanical feel, he hops in his 1966 Alfa Romeo Duetto, with a manual transmission and no servos in sight.

Excellent article. Makes sense that cars like these produce clutch-shredding torque that needs to be managed by something wiser than your left foot. And I never thought about the servo. But recall reviews of the Testarossa and Countach that described how much force had to be applied to work the clutch. I know someone with a Diablo, and he had a knee replacement (anyone wealthy enough to own a classic Lambo is likely to be old enough to qualify, LOL). He had to quit the car for quite a while (not a big issue for him, he also has an Aventador!).

Thanks for posting that.

KE_1508 · 08-04-2017, 01:12 PM

That's really a great article. There are days that I prefer an auto especially in ATL traffic during rush hour, but most of the time I prefer manual. I'm glad that Ecutek was able to manipulate the mapping of the transmission for the R35 so I'm hoping they can bring that to the 370 platform. We all know that autos during daily driving either shifts too quickly into 6th/7th gear or too slow when you need to make a pass.

On the other hand, I'm glad Porsche brought back the manual transmissions in most of their new models so it's not completely dead. The way I see it is, that it's easier on the driver and mechanical components of a DCT. You don't have to worry about rev-matching perfectly coming into a corner and you have no chance of over-revving the engine during a downshift (per say going from 5th-4th instead of 5th-2nd).

At the end of the day, I still prefer a manual. Most of us here can agree that it's become more than second nature.

DLSTR · 08-04-2017, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Excellent article. Makes sense that cars like these produce clutch-shredding torque that needs to be managed by something wiser than your left foot. And I never thought about the servo. But recall reviews of the Testarossa and Countach that described how much force had to be applied to work the clutch. I know someone with a Diablo, and he had a knee replacement (anyone wealthy enough to own a classic Lambo is likely to be old enough to qualify, LOL). He had to quit the car for quite a while (not a big issue for him, he also has an Aventador!).

Thanks for posting that.

I had a good friend with a Pantera. That machine was a severe workout on the left leg. Fun but work. My M2 has DCT. Its quite fun and offers all the beauty of a manual in manual mode with lightning shifts and power application. I am normally a manual driver. DCT is a nice way to drive. Will I own a manual again? Sure depending on the platform.

Rusty · 08-04-2017, 05:15 PM

I want a sequential gearbox in my Z.

UNKNOWN_370 · 08-04-2017, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyber370

The best Ferrari and probably the most visceral sports car ever made is the F40 and it only came one way, manual. I don't think it would've worked any other way. It may be antiquated but nothing can match the feel of shifting your own gears. It's a shame that the younger generation will never experience it. In the meantime, check out this vid. Enjoy

https://youtu.be/7mZdkfEeJH4

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The most visceral car now is the 4c. It has a dual clutch. Lol.

KE_1508 · 08-04-2017, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

I want a sequential gearbox in my Z.

Amen! A Quaife sequential at that.

Rusty · 08-04-2017, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KE_1508

Amen! A Quaife sequential at that.

cigarclifford · 08-04-2017, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

I want a sequential gearbox in my Z.

MaysEffect · 08-04-2017, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

The most visceral car now is the 4c. It has a dual clutch. Lol.

Lotus Exige v6 cup - manual

UNKNOWN_370 · 08-05-2017, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

Lotus Exige v6 cup - manual

I don't think we get that car here though.

Cyber370 · 08-07-2017, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I don't think we get that car here though.

Correct! Nor can we get an Elise. Lotus says these models will be coming back to NA eventually but based on Lotus' financial/ ownership situation, I doubt it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ZCanadian · 08-07-2017, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyber370

Correct! Nor can we get an Elise. Lotus says these models will be coming back to NA eventually but based on Lotus' financial/ ownership situation, I doubt it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Based on the fact that Lotus has been bought by Geely, I'm thinking there is a good chance they will finally find their way back. The question will be, will they remain a true Lotus. Looking at the Volvo precident, there's hope.

BlackZeda · 08-07-2017, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLSTR

I had a good friend with a Pantera. That machine was a severe workout on the left leg. Fun but work. My M2 has DCT. Its quite fun and offers all the beauty of a manual in manual mode with lightning shifts and power application. I am normally a manual driver. DCT is a nice way to drive. Will I own a manual again? Sure depending on the platform.

How long have you owned your M2 and would you recommend it?

sunkist350z · 08-08-2017, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

The most visceral car now is the 4c. It has a dual clutch. Lol.

Love the 4c, but isn't the gear box straight from the dodge dart?

DLSTR · 08-08-2017, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackZeda

How long have you owned your M2 and would you recommend it?

4 months. Highly recommend the car to others. Fun, balanced, superb exhaust note, M4 brakes =excellent. M4 suspension etc. Its an M4 minus the engine placed in a 2 series modified body. Go drive it. You wont give it back. Power is more than enough to keep you happy and the interior is nice and with great viz. Back seat and trunk give you an element of practicality and did I mention the superb exhaust note - stock.

Its put the fun back in BMW M driving and in a superb proportional package.

A review worth watching - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP5z2cJ5aqk

08-04-2017, 05:15 PM	#19 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,180 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684437	I want a sequential gearbox in my Z. Hotrodz and cigarclifford like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

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08-04-2017, 01:12 PM	#17 (permalink)
KE_1508 Base Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: AZ/GA Posts: 72 Drives: 08 Nismo 350Z # 1508 Rep Power: 8	That's really a great article. There are days that I prefer an auto especially in ATL traffic during rush hour, but most of the time I prefer manual. I'm glad that Ecutek was able to manipulate the mapping of the transmission for the R35 so I'm hoping they can bring that to the 370 platform. We all know that autos during daily driving either shifts too quickly into 6th/7th gear or too slow when you need to make a pass. On the other hand, I'm glad Porsche brought back the manual transmissions in most of their new models so it's not completely dead. The way I see it is, that it's easier on the driver and mechanical components of a DCT. You don't have to worry about rev-matching perfectly coming into a corner and you have no chance of over-revving the engine during a downshift (per say going from 5th-4th instead of 5th-2nd). At the end of the day, I still prefer a manual. Most of us here can agree that it's become more than second nature.